Scottish HSTs

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Geep

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Are there yet any notional timetables / diagrams for the HSTs coming to Scotland in 2018/19? I'm thinking of the equivalents to those produced for the GWML IEP services. Thanks much.
 
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me123

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I'd be very surprised if there were any timetables or diagrams yet, it's 2-3 years away still! The timetable may, for all I know, be completely recast by then.

We do know that the HSTs will be on the routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh - Aberdeen and Inverness, as well as Aberdeen to Inverness runs. Beyond that, you'll have to wait until nearer the time I suspect.
 

43074

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I'd be very surprised if there were any timetables or diagrams yet, it's 2-3 years away still! The timetable may, for all I know, be completely recast by then.

We do know that the HSTs will be on the routes between Glasgow and Edinburgh - Aberdeen and Inverness, as well as Aberdeen to Inverness runs. Beyond that, you'll have to wait until nearer the time I suspect.

There will be such documents out there as notional timetables and diagrams will have been written when the bid was submitted, if nothing else so they know how many sets are needed for the job. However, none of this is in the public domain; for one I'm sure there would have been a long debate on here about them!
 

D6975

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The service frequency improvements has been published somewhere though.
Inverness-Perth hourly, alternating to Glasgow and Edinburgh was one IIRC.
Aberdeen - Inverness hourly was another one I think.
 

Carntyne

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The timetable's going to be recast after the announcement about extra services, so it'll not be in public domain. Prep work will have been started though, timetable planners work years in advance.
 

Geep

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Various things have been stated "officially" from time to time, like Inverness - Perth hourly then extended alternately Glasgow/Edinburgh, with accelerated services. Now we have many additional services planned for by class 170 retentions, Glasgow - Dundee (hourly?) semi-fasts etc. All this will need additional traincrew, and according to official sources it can take up to 18 months to to acquire and train drivers "Training a driver takes between 15 and 18 months". It certainly takes way more than 12 months to plan a new service. On the Highland line there may ultimately be additional loops needed dependent on the train service selected, hence quite significant financial implications.

I would be very surprised indeed if there were not reasonably firm WTTs already written.
 

Clansman

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Going by various sources we know a few things, but not the full details:

-Will run between Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness

-Hourly service between Inverness-Perth
(alternating between Edinburgh/Glasgow)

-Hourly service from Aberdeen-Inverness

-Express service (suggests limited stops)


Here's when things such as calls get taken into account. With the announcement of 13 turbostars being retained by Scotrail, many new services will affect the HST timetable (presumably)

Aberdeen Crossrail - Local hourly stopping service from Montrose to Inverurie/Insch/Huntly. This suggests that HSTs can afford to speed up by missing the following calls: Montrose, Laurencekirk, Stonehaven, Portlethen, Dyce, Insch, Huntly on routes from Glasgow to Aberdeen and Aberdeen to Inverness.

Dundee/Arbroath Local - Hourly(?) stopping service between Glasgow and Dundee/Arbroath. This suggests that the HST can also afford to miss the following calls: Larbert, Dunblane, Gleneagles, Invergowrie, Broughty Ferry, Monifieth on routes from Glasgow Queen Street to Aberdeen, Edinburgh to Aberdeen (from Dundee) and Glasgow Queen Street to Inverness (as far as Perth).

Perth to Edinburgh Local
- Hourly service between Perth and Edinburgh as currently in place between certain times. This also suggests that HSTs can possibly afford to skip the following calls: Ladybank, Markinch, Kirkcaldy (?), Inverkeithing (?), Edinburgh Gateway (?), which could see services between Inverness and Edinburgh being diverted via Stirling, running non stop from Perth to maximise journey times. It also adds the possibility of more Dundee to Edinburgh local services (which I think are happening?). Although diversions only usually happen should the service run a minimum of 10 minutes late so we can expect it to call at Kirkcaldy and Edinburgh Gateway at the very least.

So, going by what we know already, we can get an idea of the most likely service patterns for HSTs, although we can never be sure.

Glasgow to Aberdeen
Glasgow-Stirling-Perth-Dundee-Arbroath-Aberdeen
With infrequent (2 hourly?) calls at Dunblane, Gleneagles, Montrose, Laurencekirk, Stonehaven. So that leaves us with the possible conclusion that Glasgow to Aberdeen services could alternate between Fast and Semi Fast journeys, speeding up 50% of diagrams currently in place today.

Aberdeen to Inverness
Aberdeen-Inverurie-Keith-Elgin-Forres-Nairn-Inverness
Also with semi-fast service calls at Dyce, Insch and Huntly. But judging by the service patterns currently in place, the calls for that particular journey probably wouldn't change due to the nature of the route inhibiting frequent services, thus calling all stops.

Edinburgh to Aberdeen
Edinburgh-Haymarket-Edinburgh Gateway-Leuchars-Dundee-Arbroath-Aberdeen. Taking into consideration the current service pattern and the future connectivity to Edinburgh Airport, as well as future service between smaller stations. This service could also see alternating timetables between Fast and Semi Fast with the stations listed coming under the former. But we can expect a call at either Montrose or Stonehaven to connect with local services.

Edinburgh to Inverness
Edinburgh-Haymarket-Edinburgh Gateway-Kirkcaldy-Perth-Pitlochry-Kingussie-Aviemore-Inverness. This service could be in a similar situation to the Aberdeen to Inverness service in which smaller remote calls will be called at to boost connectivity. Judging by current services it would be most likely that this service will only get improved journey times pending on the acceleration which is the most probable case for most HST journeys.

Obviously we can't know for sure what the service patterns are going to be, but gathering a few facts we know that services will probably cut out a few stations, which will be served by new local services, which will see Intercity services call at smaller stations on a less frequent basis. I.e from hourly to 2 hourly etc. Mind you, this is just my personal opinion :D
 
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Altnabreac

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Perth to Edinburgh Local - Hourly service between Perth and Edinburgh. This also suggests that HSTs can possibly afford to skip the following calls: Ladybank, Markinch, Kirkcaldy (?), Inverkeithing (?), Edinburgh Gateway (?), which could see services between Inverness and Edinburgh being diverted via Stirling, running non stop from Perth to maximise journey times. It also adds the possibility of more Dundee to Edinburgh local services (which I think are happening?).

I'm not sure that there is actually a commitment to any extra services from Perth to Edinburgh. The announcement stated:
Perth - Minimum of an hourly service to Glasgow and Edinburgh (mix of limited stop High Speed Train and one regional service)

This implies that there won't necessarily be an hourly local Perth service every hour, only in the alternate hours when a through Inverness does not run.

I'd also severely doubt any non Chieftain services will go via Stirling as they'll need to maintain frequency to Fife stations and there will be increasing pressure on the south lines at Haymarket so diverting more services that way won't help with timetabling the new semi fast Stirling service and faster Edinburgh - Glasgow services.

Otherwise your analysis looks about right to me.
 

43074

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...
Glasgow to Aberdeen
Glasgow-Stirling-Perth-Dundee-Arbroath-Aberdeen
With infrequent (2 hourly?) calls at Dunblane, Gleneagles, Montrose, Laurencekirk, Stonehaven. So that leaves us with the possible conclusion that Glasgow to Aberdeen services could alternate between Fast and Semi Fast journeys, speeding up 50% of diagrams currently in place today.
[snip]
Edinburgh to Aberdeen
Edinburgh-Haymarket-Edinburgh Gateway-Leuchars-Dundee-Arbroath-Aberdeen. Taking into consideration the current service pattern and the future connectivity to Edinburgh Airport, as well as future service between smaller stations. This service could also see alternating timetables between Fast and Semi Fast with the stations listed coming under the former.
...

I'd possibly add Montrose to both of those, given it would make sense for any customers travelling on the local service from Portlethen, Stonehaven & Laurencekirk to Edinburgh and/or Glasgow to change to the HST service there rather than at Aberdeen, but otherwise I'd agree with your suggestions.
 

anti-pacer

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I know there aren't unlimited supplies of HST's to go round, but I think it would be nice to see some operating Glasgow Central-Newcastle services calling at Kilmarnock, Dumfries, Carlisle, Hexham, Metrocentre, Newcastle.
 

jopsuk

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Not a chance of them heading south, they're specifically for the "Seven Cities" services
 
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