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SouthEastern-465

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Well proves the Met Police were in the wrong as they were as quick leaving the seen when the were people around, plus the fact with all stabing and shooting in London in this day and age and they are wasting time harrasing a man with a camera disgraceful.... :roll: :-x
 

LMS6202

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Can't see anything wrong happening here myself. Did these climate change people have permission to set up this "camp" on a public open space? Maybe the officer was a bit OTT but I think overall they were in the right.
 

43034 The Black Horse

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Can't see anything wrong happening here myself. Did these climate change people have permission to set up this "camp" on a public open space? Maybe the officer was a bit OTT but I think overall they were in the right.

Agree with you, LMS. But then I am biased as I am against these climate protesters/green peace/save the whales type of people! ;)
 

142094

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I cannot believe what I've just read, if you think nothing is wrong with this, the harrassment of someone minding their own business and not breaking the law, then you must be mad! Once again civil liberties being eroded like we've just turned into Soviet Russia...
 

Darandio

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I guess a weekend camping is now out of the question then. :roll:
 

LMS6202

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Look. That policeman's reaction was rather restrained IMO. If people object to being filmed by policemen then the policemen have the same right to object to being filmed by someone they know not for reasons unknown. I know people who's reaction to being filmed without prior permission would be rather more violent than that copper. Don't go quoting civil liberties either. Civil liberties are only a front for those that take liberties. You all have the courtesy to ask permission before taking pictures or films on railway or private property so you should extend the same courtesy before photographing an individual no matter who they are.
 

the sniper

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http://www.blip.tv/file/3106879

If they've not been sacked then I've lost even more respect for the police. They should not only be sacked but the pig who grabbed the camera should be charged with assault. :-x

Police brutality!!!! Oh wait, no, this is Police brutality: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-1fPToIOTA

Though the copper was tactless, it was hardly assault. Maybe if the French chap hadn't been deliberately trying to provoke them by pointlessly filming them, there wouldn't have been any incident whatsoever. :roll:

Alls well that ends well though, the guy with the camera got the reaction he hoped for and now all the freedom fighters can watch this video and bemoan our Police state.

Once again civil liberties being eroded like we've just turned into Soviet Russia...

What is it with people and these ridiculous, ill informed comparisons? :|

You go and stick a camcorder in a Russian Police officers face, see what reaction you get, that is if you come back alive, then compare Britain to that. I can assure you that you won't get the officers badge number over there, and they have a lot less time for smartarses then the British coppers do.
 

Oswyntail

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Whatever your views on the climate camp, this officer acted illegally, and counter to police regulations. The filmer did not seem to be committing an offence, and explained, politely, what he was doing. The officer has no legal right to require filming to stop, or physically obstruct the camera, and should have openly given his division and number when asked for it.
These actions are not evidence of a police state, simply a policeman not really doing his job well enough. But there is plenty of evidence from the history of the last 100 years that, unless the small things like this are corrected properly then people feel they can get away with larger things, unchallenged. And I personally find it disturbing that there are still people around who think that, because a group express beliefs they do not agree with (the climate camp in this instance) then they are almost fair game for anyone wishing to disrupt them. There is no difference between this incident and a rail photographer having his camera confiscated by BTP.
 

Oswyntail

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Actually, doesn't the terrorism act 2008 make it illegal to film police officers...?
As I understand it (and I am really no expert) only if it is likely to aid anyone committing or planning an act of terrorism. I would maintain that the current incident is not, as the climate camp does not really fall into that category (stands back and waits for flames :().
 

Daniel

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As I understand it (and I am really no expert) only if it is likely to aid anyone committing or planning an act of terrorism. I would maintain that the current incident is not, as the climate camp does not really fall into that category (stands back and waits for flames :().

Don't worry, you won't be flamed from me, I'm not an expert either ;D
 

Snapper

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Look. That policeman's reaction was rather restrained IMO. If people object to being filmed by policemen then the policemen have the same right to object to being filmed by someone they know not for reasons unknown. I know people who's reaction to being filmed without prior permission would be rather more violent than that copper. Don't go quoting civil liberties either. Civil liberties are only a front for those that take liberties. You all have the courtesy to ask permission before taking pictures or films on railway or private property so you should extend the same courtesy before photographing an individual no matter who they are.

What utter nonsense!

Here's an example. A concerned citizen films someone committing a criminal or illegal act (a video which could provide crucial evidence in a court of law). Is that person expected to ask the criminals permission first? Of course not. And would it make any difference if the person breaching the law is wearing a uniform? No.

And as for the private property argument - Black Heath is a public open space.

Civil liberties are a basic human right to protect the citizen from the power of the state.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As I understand it (and I am really no expert) only if it is likely to aid anyone committing or planning an act of terrorism. I would maintain that the current incident is not, as the climate camp does not really fall into that category (stands back and waits for flames :().

No, it's not illegal to film police officers. Oswyntail is correct in what he says.
 

jon0844

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How does a journalist carry out his/her work if you need to ask permission first? Yes, you do on private property - and may or may not need to get a release form signed - but the idea is that we are all free to move around and take photos or film.

If I object to being filmed by a police officer, I can move away or hide my face - I can't just grab the camera.

NOR CAN A POLICE OFFICER. In fact, in a public space, they cannot do anything at all - except do the same thing, move away or hide their face.

Just as you'd wonder why I might cover my face in public, so too could you wonder why a police officer would cover his/her face.

In these cases, what the people are doing to be harassed by the police is actually irrelevant. If they're somewhere illegally, use the necessary powers to move them on.

I've been to China and taken photos of police officers and even the army - and nothing happened. I've been approached by the police and one PCSO in the UK (London mostly) many times with the threat of arrest or a demand to show what I've taken a photo of. I'm lucky; I have an accredited press card which makes them all run away - but I'm keen to stand up and fight for everyone, who all enjoy the same 'rights' as me and must fight to retain them.

I do wonder why we now have to be convinced that we're lucky we're only treated pretty badly, because there are other places where we'd likely be taken away and executed...
 
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Bighat

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http://www.blip.tv/file/3106879

If they've not been sacked then I've lost even more respect for the police. They should not only be sacked but the pig who grabbed the camera should be charged with assault. :-x

I think 'filth' would have been a better description of these two plod.

No wonder the general public are losing respect for the police, if this is an example of 'standard procedure and behaviour'.

We all fully understand that their job IS considerably more difficult in times of heightened tennsion, but given the circumstances here, there was absolutely NO excuse for their behaviour.

Respect for the police will only be re-established when this sort of arrogance is banished FOR GOOD.

I hope that this film clip will find its way to the Met Police's complaints department, AS WELL as to the national press.

If they are not willing to deal with these morons presently, perhaps a little 'publicity' will help them change their mind.

The film clip was clear on the shoulder number of the driver, who also seemed to assault the camera man, as the registration number and identity letters of his vehicle was also easily visible!
 

142094

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the sniper said:
Though the copper was tactless, it was hardly assault. Maybe if the French chap hadn't been deliberately trying to provoke them by pointlessly filming them, there wouldn't have been any incident whatsoever. :roll:

OK, so if I did that to a police officer (Put my hand over his camcorder), are you saying I wouldn't get arrested for assault or something similar?



the sniper said:
What is it with people and these ridiculous, ill informed comparisons?

Why the comparison?:roll: Well, Russian police are known for the fact that they break the rules all the time. Same in this case. Except we are supposed to live in a more democratic and 'free' society.
 

jon0844

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OK, so if I did that to a police officer (Put my hand over his camcorder), are you saying I wouldn't get arrested for assault or something similar?

You shouldn't be, any more than they should do anything to you if you film them.

Of course, the police always have the upper hand. If they can't think of something on the spot (often made up with the hope you're too naive to realise and comply), they can always goad you on until you do something that entitles them to arrest you for breach of the peace/public order.

I know the counter-argument about the police needing to be tough to deal with the hard criminals, but any professional can adapt. Isn't it funny how the Met can put plenty of incredibly friendly and co-operative coppers in and around the tourist hotspots of the capital. They're never going to grab your camera or do anything illegal.
 

Polls

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I think this reaction from the Police Officer was a bit random and the fact he just walked away and drove off without following anything through just made the whole act pointless.

However, if we keep on nit picking at everything certain Police officers do no matter how small and rather pointless, it will soon take away any authority that the Police might have and they will soon be as pointless as a PCSO. Now that would cause a lot more problems, don't you think?
 

142094

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PCSOs are pointless, the only reason they exist is that they are cheaper than a normal plod. Isn't it true that they don't have the powers of arrest (apart from Citizens' Arrest), but have to wait for an actual PC to come along?
 

Polls

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PCSOs are pointless, the only reason they exist is that they are cheaper than a normal plod. Isn't it true that they don't have the powers of arrest (apart from Citizens' Arrest), but have to wait for an actual PC to come along?

Yes that is correct. So kinda hated by Police Officers too, because they just bother them all the time when they are trying to do thier own job too. But hey, none of that matters because the Government want to cut costs and get more Specials on the streets who are COMPLETELY free.
 

Mojo

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Isn't it actually the case that police officers spend too much time doing paperwork and thus spend less time out on the street, and that PCSOs were to redress this balance?

Why not hire civilian admin staff to do the paperwork and only have "real" police patrolling the streets?
 

Polls

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Isn't it actually the case that police officers spend too much time doing paperwork and thus spend less time out on the street, and that PCSOs were to redress this balance?

Why not hire civilian admin staff to do the paperwork and only have "real" police patrolling the streets?

That sounds like a brilliant idea! Or hire/train more Police? I liked the idea of PCSO's because I thought it would help but they are so powerless they have become a bit of a joke. They are almost as popular as traffic wardens. I think its such a shame.
 

LMS6202

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What utter nonsense!

Here's an example. A concerned citizen films someone committing a criminal or illegal act (a video which could provide crucial evidence in a court of law). Is that person expected to ask the criminals permission first? Of course not. And would it make any difference if the person breaching the law is wearing a uniform? No. That policeman was NOT breaching the law he was upholding it

And as for the private property argument - Black Heath is a public open space. That is what I said or meant

Civil liberties are a basic human right to protect the citizen from the power of the state. Civil liberties are a corruption of freedom and is used by the PC brigade to protect the criminal and punish the victim

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


No, it's not illegal to film police officers. Oswyntail is correct in what he says.
Well it should be illegal to do so. There is far too much so-called freedom in this country.
 

the sniper

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OK, so if I did that to a police officer (Put my hand over his camcorder), are you saying I wouldn't get arrested for assault or something similar?

You'd more likely get done for obstructing a police officer. The copper should face disciplinary action, but a charge of assault is over the top. The whole incident is ridiculous (why did the French man insist on filming the copper/why was the copper even bothered that he was being filmed) and neither party are blameless.

Why the comparison?:roll: Well, Russian police are known for the fact that they break the rules all the time. Same in this case. Except we are supposed to live in a more democratic and 'free' society.

Sorry, let me get this straight, you honestly think that the British Police are comparable to the Russian Police? Comparable to a country where a male journalist can be raped with a broom stick and beaten to death while just sobering-up in a Police cell and only one Police officer be arrested for the crime.

Yeah, that's the daily routine for your average British bobby, along with taking bribes, raping prostitutes, destroying the homes of political activists, getting blind drunk on duty and beating up homosexuals. :roll:

PCSOs are pointless, the only reason they exist is that they are cheaper than a normal plod.

That is widely disputed, many people say that PCSO's cost nearly as much as real police officers...

Isn't it true that they don't have the powers of arrest (apart from Citizens' Arrest), but have to wait for an actual PC to come along?

I don't think they do. Some though, like the BTP and (IIRC) North Wales Police, have the power to detain suspects. This is why the BTP PCSO's carry handcuffs.

Yes that is correct. So kinda hated by Police Officers too, because they just bother them all the time when they are trying to do thier own job too.

I think that's unfair, most police officers are against the concept of PCSO's, but few have a problem with the actual people who do the job. All of the BTP officers that I've had anything to do with and have spoken to about PCSO's have only had positive things to say about them.

Of all the forces in the UK, I get the feeling that the Met might be the main force with the problems you describe between PC and PCSO's, probably because they've got a large number of PCSO's, of which a relatively high percentage seem to be at least a little bit incompetent.

Why not hire civilian admin staff to do the paperwork and only have "real" police patrolling the streets?

Good question.
 

jon0844

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PCSOs can help with paperwork and following up things, as well as (supposedly - but I dispute it heavily) being the 'eyes and ears' on the ground.

The problem is that the PCSOs don't seem very effective at passing on information any more than a 'civilian' and by being the 'face' on the street (which criminals can go and laugh at), you're no longer having contact with the real police. This is made worse because it means the REAL police no longer have contact with the local community, except when they're called out to deal with something. PCSOs regularly have to radio/phone for advice, making them rather like some form of highly-paid neighbourhood watch.

I'd go for more real police any time, with a system of reducing the paperwork. I also agreed (hard to believe) with Jack Straw who did point out that some officers (only some) do seem to use paperwork as an excuse not to be out and about; the 'office cats' as they're known as.
 

ralphchadkirk

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There are systems of reducing paperwork for officers. For instance the Met have a Case Progression Unit who write the case files, rather than the arresting officer doing it. This, surprisingly, isn't popular with officers as they are then loosing the skills of interviewing and case files, which makes it harder to progress into things like CID.
 
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