Season ticket help

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CFC747

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I'm a total novice to all this, so I hope that I'm putting it in the right place.

I want to get an annual season ticket from Surbiton (SUR) to Epsom (EPS). The recognised routes from SUR to EPS (on the National Rail journey planner) are via Raynes Park (RAY) or Wimbledon (WIM).

I have looked on the South West Trains season ticket calculator and the National Rail season ticket calculator, but both of those say no such ticket exists. (I also searched this forum, but I can't find anything on point).

What I find most confusing is that both season ticket calculators will give me a price for an annual ticket from SUR to Ewell West (EWW), the station immediately preceding EPS; they will also give me a price for an annual ticket from SUR to Ashtead (AHD), the station immediately following EPS.

All trains that stop at EWW also stop at EPS and ADH and they are all South West Trains services.

So why can't I get an annual ticket to EPS when I can get one to the stations either side of it?

To add to the confusion if you look at the price of a peak single ticket on the National Rail journey planner, the cost for SUR-EPS (via WIM) is £7.40, but SUR-AHD (via WIM) is £5.50, even though you use the self same trains to make the journey, you just get off a stop later to get to AHD than for EPS.

Worse than that, the journey planner actually tells you that you need to buy two separate tickets for SUR-EPS (one SUR-WIM and one WIM-EPS), but you can use a singe ticket for the SUR-AHD journey.

Is this just a glitch or am I getting my information wrong?

If it isn't, is there some sensible way for me to get an annual season ticket for SUR-EPS?

Any help gratefully received.

Thanks
 
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Paul Kelly

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A season from Surbiton to Ashtead (£39.70) would of course also be valid to stop short at Epsom and would additionally be valid via Clapham Junction, Sutton and Ewell East - so could be useful to at least cover part of the journey if you were heading into London for example.

Another option is a season from Epsom to London Zones 3-6 at £38.70. This would also cover unlimited travel within trains in London Zones 3-6 and on buses anywhere in London, so might be a better option.

No idea why there are no season fares available from Surbiton to Epsom though - maybe you should ask South West Trains about that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Actually if you were prepared to change at Raynes Park instead of Wimbledon, you could get away with an Epsom to Zones 4-6 season, which is only £32.
 

bb21

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No idea why there are no season fares available from Surbiton to Epsom though - maybe you should ask South West Trains about that.

Apparently, The Manual tells you to use a Travelcard for 7D seasons.

If it isn't, is there some sensible way for me to get an annual season ticket for SUR-EPS?

You can split your journey into two season tickets. A weekly season between Surbiton and Ewell West costs £20 and a weekly between Ewell West and Surbiton is £10.60. This is cheaper than the Travelcard options given above, although it does not allow you free travel on other modes of transport, such as the bus or the tram. To use a combination of two season tickets, your train must stop at the station where you change from one ticket to the other, however this is not a problem as all trains on that route stop at Ewell West.

Surbiton - Raynes Park - Ewell West is 7.5 miles and is the shortest route between the origin and the destination. Surbiton - Raynes Park - Wimbledon - Raynes Park - Ewell West is 10.5 miles therefore is also a permitted route as it is no more than 3 miles longer than the shortest route. Therefore the combination of the two season tickets mentioned will also permit you to travel via Wimbledon.

For the annual price of any flow, just multiply the weekly price by 40.
 

CFC747

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Thanks all, that's very helpful. I just have a couple of further questions.

If have season ticket to Ashtead I can stop short and get off at EPS. Will that also work to start at EPS to go back the other way (I'm assuming it must) - even if there was an automatic ticket barrier at EPS, or on a manual ticket inspection before I board the train?

I'm interested in the idea of a season ticket from Espom to Zones 3-6, though the season ticket calculator doesn't give me that option (only EPS to Z4-6), but presumably a ticket office at a national rail station could do this for me.

One final thing: if I did use two separate tickets, one from SUR to EWW and one from EWW to EPS, I need to use a train that actually stops at EWW, but presumably I don't actually have to get off the train to go out of the station and come back in again (does EWW even have a ticket barrier - I've never been).

Thanks to you all for your help.
 

Paul Kelly

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Normal point-to-point season tickets allow unlimited travel along all permitted routes between the two stations named on the ticket, including unlimited break of journey at all intermediate stations along the route. So no problems getting on or off at Epsom or indeed anywhere else along the route - although it's possible the barriers at some stations might be lazily programmed and not always accept the ticket - in which case you would need to show it to the barrier attendant to be let through.

You can see details of the Epsom to Zones 3-6 season here: http://brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=EPS&dest=SUR&grpd=0040&rte=0&ldn=0&tkt=7TS
Once you get used to it, you might find that site easier to use for these sorts of enquiries than the National Rail season ticket calculator. Note that for the "SOUTHERN ONLY" Travelcards (which are a bit cheaper) you must always travel on a Southern service from Epsom to Ewell East (so probably not much use to you) but once inside the London zones you may use SWT (or any other train company in the relevant zones).

And if you are taking up the option of splitting seasons at Ewell West no, you don't have to get off and can stay on the same train; it just needs to stop there.
 

34D

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If have season ticket to Ashtead I can stop short and get off at EPS. Will that also work to start at EPS to go back the other way (I'm assuming it must) - even if there was an automatic ticket barrier at EPS, or on a manual ticket inspection before I board the train?

Yes both ways. As indigo says, it may not have been programmed into the barriers, but staff will understand.
 

LexyBoy

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Tickets from Epsom covering any Travelcard Zones combination from Z5-6 to Z1-6 are available, you can check the fares at brfares.com.

You don't need to get off the train when changing from one ticket to another, it just needs to stop. Also, if combining a Season with a non-season ticket, this requirement is waived and you can travel on trains which do not stop. This may be of use if for example you held an Epsom-Z4-6 Travelcard and wanted to travel to Waterloo from Surbiton - a Raynes Park-Waterloo ticket would be valid for the journey in combination with the Travelcard (although a Zones 1-4 Day Travelcard would often be a better bet and equally valid on fast trains).
 

CFC747

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I called SouthWest Trains and the very helpful lady I spoke to referred the matter to the Pricing Manager.

The fact that there is no available season ticket from SUR to EPS is an anomaly and will apparently be rectified in September's pricing manual.

They came up with a fare for me of £30.20 per week. However, this would only be valid to travel via Raynes Park and would not be valid to change at Wimbledon, which isn't very helpful because that cuts the journey choice down from 5 trains an hour to 2 trains an hour.

I still don't really understand why a single ticket from SUR to EPS via WIM is £7.40, a ticket from SUR to EPS via RAY is £4.70, but a ticket from SUR to AHD is £5.50 (and is valid via both WIM and RAY) when it's the same train that stops at EPS.

Thanks again to you all for your help. I think an EPS-London Z3-6 is the best solution because it also helps with the cost in to central London at weekends and on buses to (for example) Kingston.
 

bb21

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Surbiton - Epsom is valid via Wimbledon for the same reason I described above why Surbiton - Ewell West is valid via Wimbledon, unless the ticket is routed "Not Via Wimbledon".

Surbiton - Epsom
Route Any Permitted
Anytime Day Single
£4.70

is valid for travel via Wimbledon. The £7.40 price quoted is the price of

Surbiton - Wimbledon
Route Any Permitted
Anytime Day Single
£3.60

plus

Wimbledon - Epsom
Route Any Permitted
Anytime Day Single
£3.80

Routeing permissions are not always correctly interpretted by any website, due to their massively complicated nature.
 

kieron

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A 7 day season from Surbiton to Ewell East is £26.10, and the shortest route between the stations passes through Raynes Parks and Epsom (with Wimbledon 3 miles longer).

A Hampton Court-Ewell East one is the same price, and is also valid for Surbiton-Epsom.
 

CFC747

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Thanks to all those of you who have given me advice on this.

I don't want to labour the point (especially given that i have got my answer: get an Epsom - Zone 3 to 6 travelcard), but the people at South West Trains have been surprisingly kind at answering questions.

I asked about routeing through Wimbledon (and pointed out that it is exactly 3 miles longer than the shortest route through Raynes Park) and so technically should also be considered a permitted route.

The response I got was that a route is not a permitted route if it causes doubling back (passing through the same station twice) unless an easement is in place.

Changing at Wimbledon causes a passenger to double back through Raynes Park (though the train that got you to Wimbledon might not actually have stopped at Raynes Park) and so is not permitted.

Interestingly there is an easement in place for travel between Surbiton and Kingston (which allows doubling back through any of New Malden, Raynes Park and Wimbledon), but there is not one in place for travel to Epsom (or other stations on that line).

I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on that point, though, as I said, I have my (workable) answer anyway.
 

Deerfold

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Thanks to all those of you who have given me advice on this.

I don't want to labour the point (especially given that i have got my answer: get an Epsom - Zone 3 to 6 travelcard), but the people at South West Trains have been surprisingly kind at answering questions.

I asked about routeing through Wimbledon (and pointed out that it is exactly 3 miles longer than the shortest route through Raynes Park) and so technically should also be considered a permitted route.

The response I got was that a route is not a permitted route if it causes doubling back (passing through the same station twice) unless an easement is in place.

Changing at Wimbledon causes a passenger to double back through Raynes Park (though the train that got you to Wimbledon might not actually have stopped at Raynes Park) and so is not permitted.

I'd be interested to hear anyone's thoughts on that point, though, as I said, I have my (workable) answer anyway.

It's my understanding that doubling back is only banned if you are using mapped routes. If a route is valid due to it being the shortest route (+/- 3 miles) the ban does not come into force/
 

calc7

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It's my understanding that doubling back is only banned if you are using mapped routes. If a route is valid due to it being the shortest route (+/- 3 miles) the ban does not come into force/

And the same for direct trains - for instance the Selby to Leeds via Wakefield, Huddersfield, Halifax and Bradford "Great West Yorkshire tour" service doubles back through Deighton (and what a ghastly place that is).
 
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