Season ticket refund

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by ajhard, 15 Mar 2020.

  1. janb

    janb Member

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    RDG sent out an initial brief saying fees were waived on season tickets, however this was then corrected and a revised brief sent out saying that the £10 fee still applies to season ticket refunds.
     
  2. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Good news, despite Twitter insisting I had no replies, including right now even, I did get one.

    It is possible to send ones season ticket back with a covering letter. In due course they will then sent out replacement tickets I assume.

    I am tempted to do this but equally whose to say the ticket office wouldn't reopen tomorrow. Which place will have more people? Guildford Station or the the Post Office in WH Smiths.

    Guildford Station is more airy, if that makes any difference.
     
  3. Starmill

    Starmill Veteran Member Associate Staff Events Co-ordinator

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    If the ticket office isn't open now, and you've been advised that this is the policy, it doesn't seem wise to me to imagine they'll reopen any time soon.

    I can't believe anywhere has an open ticket office to be honest. Isn't the message going through?
     
  4. island

    island Established Member

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    Refund has to be from the train company who issued your original ticket.

    You can (apparently) do it by post.
     
  5. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    Well Southern branded stations and Great Western Railway do have open ticket offices, so perhaps the message isn't getting though, if the message from the government is for them all to close across the country.

    I don't know what the message is though. All I know is that South Western Railway revived advice and they closed theirs.

    In my perticular circumstances going to the station to sort out the season ticket would be easier than the Post Office but I do appreciate the situation the country is in as a whole so im not critising them.

    More promotion of them being closed would be helpful mind you. A general tweet. There isn't anything save for individual replies
     
    Last edited: 24 Mar 2020 at 11:43
  6. paul1609

    paul1609 Established Member

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    In a lot of the Kent and Sussex Stations the ticket office are the only staff on the station and provide information and passenger assistance on what are often DOO lines.
     
  7. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    I was debating whether to go to the Post Office to post back my season ticket. However it has been confirmed on Twitter that South Western Railway are looking at ways that people can safely return their sesoan tickets, if they cannot leave the house. They go on to say:
    https://twitter.com/SW_Help/status/1242489061719212032?s=19

    Based on that I'm happy to wait it out and see what happens.

    They also say only large stations have ticket offices open, based on Government advice.
     
  8. coursemyhorse

    coursemyhorse Member

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    I've genuinely tried reading up on threads on here and around the forum and it just leaves me more confused as to how to work this out, when people start talking about base rates and period factors etc. If anyone can advise how I can work out whether to get a refund vs changeover I'd be grateful.

    My ticket: Ash Vale to London Terminals (any permitted route) including travelcard zones 1-6 @ 2019 pricing = £4788
    Commenced on 1st January 2020.
    So I've used just under 3 months worth.

    Current prices are as follows:
    weekly = 123.10
    monthly = 472.8
    annual = 4924

    My maths (which will be wrong) is that I would have had to buy 3 x £472.8 = 1418.4
    My annual cost of £4788 - £1418.4 = £3369.6 total refund

    (should the calculation use old 2019 pricing for the first monthly season too, since I could have bought it at the old price?)

    As an added complication, I bought this via my work season ticket loan and therefore pay it off at 10 x monthly instalments of £478.98
    The payments come out of my pay at the end of each month, so the third one is about to be paid. There is an option when you login to the third party ticket provider via my company's portal to do a changeover request. The refund process is not clear at this time as to how they do it other than you simply submit a refund request.
     
  9. ValleyLines142

    ValleyLines142 Established Member

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    May I jump on the bandwagon with the season ticket situation?

    I have a monthly between Waun-Gron Park and Cathays. It expires on 6th April. I've finished work today. If I return it, how much will I receive back?
     
  10. sefton

    sefton Member

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    The Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, said about season ticket refunds and the changes being made that it would "ensure no-one is unfairly out of pocket for doing the right thing" about following government advice and not travelling.

    So if that statement is true that must mean the train companies are tearing up the existing season ticket refund rules and introducing something new which delivers a similar result to a changeover.

    However I will believe it when I see it.
     
  11. coursemyhorse

    coursemyhorse Member

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    Could not edit post so quoting it.

    Had a go at the changeover calculation as I see it based on what I read. This is changing over to the lowest cost annual season on south western railway based on a forum post I read on here, which is Dockyard to Devenport @ £128

    If I do the changeover now I need to be refunded for April 30 days + May 31 days + etc till the end of the year = 275 days.
    £4788 (annual ticket cost) / 365 = £13.1178 daily rate x 275 days = £3607.40 to be refunded

    Then add on the cost to add on the new ticket Dockyard to Devenport:
    £128 / 365 = 0.35068 daily rate x 275 days = £96.44

    £3607.40 - £96.44 = £3510.96 total refund

    So changeover = 3510.96 - £3369.60 = £141.36 better off doing changeover
     
  12. Richardr

    Richardr Member

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    I cancelled mine online with Thameslink today - I got email confirmation that it was successful seconds later. There is still an admin fee of £5 quoted. I will await the refund to my credit card, which they say will happen in the next 5 days.

    The website asked for the paper gold card to be returned to a ticket office, but no mention of that in the email. The actual ticket is on my Key card.
     
  13. MikeWM

    MikeWM Member

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    Seems very unreasonable under the circumstances. Are they just hoping the amount refunded is large enough that people won't make a fuss about having to pay a fee (even though through no fault of their own)?

    To me it is clear that refunds in these extraordinary times should be (a) pro-rata and (b) without fee. The fact they are neither doesn't reflect well at all on the railway.
     
  14. sefton

    sefton Member

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    Well interestingly yesterday all the Govia websites said about refunds on season tickets (my bolding) -

    Season tickets will be refunded pro-rata
    , depending on the tickets’ duration and time left until expiry. A £10 refund fee will also be payable. As season tickets offer a discount compared to day tickets including a number of “free” days travel, no refund will be due in the following cases:

    • Where two or less days validity remains before it expires in the case of a 7-Day Season Ticket
    • Where six or less days validity remains before it expires in the case of a monthly or Season Ticket
    • Where 12 or less weeks validity remains before it expires in the case of an annual Season Ticket"
    https://webcache.googleusercontent....navirus-information+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

    But today the same page says

    Season tickets offer a discount compared to daily tickets by including a period of “free” travel, which is added onto the end of its duration. Once this “free” period has been entered, the full value of the ticket will have been realised and no refund is due. Refunds are calculated as the difference between the cost of your season ticket and what it would have cost you to travel without the season ticket. Examples of this are:
    • Where two or less days validity remains before it expires in the case of a 7-Day Season Ticket
    • Where six or less days validity remains before it expires in the case of a monthly or Season Ticket
    • Where twelve or less weeks validity remains before it expires in the case of an annual Season Ticket
    https://www.greatnorthernrail.com/travel-information/plan-your-journey/coronavirus-information

    Did the person who wrote the first not understand season ticket refunds?

    Has there been a change of policy since the Transport Secretary, Grant Shapps, said about season ticket refunds and the changes being made that it would "ensure no-one is unfairly out of pocket for doing the right thing" about following government advice and not travelling?

    I suppose anyone who had a ticket refunded yesterday would have a good legal case against Govia that they have been refunded the incorrect amount if they were not refunded "pro-rata".
     
  15. Hadders

    Hadders Fares Advisor

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    I'd say that's almost certainly the case.
     
  16. Haywain

    Haywain Established Member

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    Either that or didn't understand the meaning of "pro rata". In the same way that Grant Shapps may define "unfairly out of pocket" differently to others.
     
  17. lauraloo

    lauraloo New Member

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    Would really appreciate advise on refund in light of current situation.
    Have annual season ticket from Luton to London Thameslink (St Pancras) and would like to work out best way to get refund and how much I will get back. Realise i will lose money so need to know how bad the hit will be, Would a 'change over' help?
    Ticket valid until 8 October 2020
    Cost: £4308
     
  18. sefton

    sefton Member

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    And the train companies wonder why their customers have such a poor opinion of them.
     
  19. Hadders

    Hadders Fares Advisor

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    Indeed. And these are the same people who say we should trust them to deliver fares reform.
     
  20. island

    island Established Member

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    Monthly ticket £53.80
    Used from 07•MCH•20 to 25•MCH•20: two weeks and five days
    Equivalent tickets for travel actually used: 3x seven day season 3x£14 = £42
    Admin fee £10
    Refund due £1.80.
     
  21. Richardr

    Richardr Member

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    I bought my original season ticket on the Thameslink website, and was able to claim the refund there, which was calculated there before I clicked to accept.
     
  22. ValleyLines142

    ValleyLines142 Established Member

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    The £10 admin fee has been lifted. I had £11.80 back. Went in and did it yesterday :)
     
  23. janb

    janb Member

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    Yes, TfW (and ScotRail) have deviated from the RDG party line on the season ticket refund admin fee.
     
  24. father_jack

    father_jack Member

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    Can i be devil's advocate please to garner opinion surrounding season refunds.

    Dougal and all his colleagues gets told to work from home starting Monday 16th March. He has a smart season that could clearly be interrogated and show he last used it at 1800 on Friday 13th March.

    He only gets into the nearest station this morning to refund it. The £10 admin fee is now waived but the clerk refunds it using the standard refund operation on the ticket issuing system which puts today as "surrender" day. That means he's deemed to have used it today so the first refundable day is tomorrow !!!

    Aschurch to Reading= £8924.00. Weekly= £223.10.

    Ticket started 01-01-2020. So 2 months and 26 days used. Therefore 14.25 (factor for 2 months 26 days) x 223.10= £3179.20 used, take away from original cost, leaves £5744.80.

    But had he surrendered on 13th March- 2 months and 13 days used. 13.19 (factor for 2 months 13 days) x 223.10= £2942.70 used, take away fro original cost, leaves £5981.30.

    A difference of £236.50, which is fine if the employer is paying but if the passenger pays themself......
     
  25. infobleep

    infobleep Established Member

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    South Western Railway Twitter help has stated that people who do the right thing will not be penalised. Under those circumstances the fund should be when they stopped travelling.

    Details on how all this would work are yet to be released.

    I can't find the Tweet at the moment.

    On a separate note refunds can't be processed by SWR right now. They do have an online form that can be filled in. Interestingly the additional comments section only allows 150 and if you go over that it says:
    At least I know one of their database fields is called Additional Comments. Or a variant of that as spaces between words isn't a recommended practice for field names.

    On top of that there are three address lines that must be filled in, in addition to town and postcode.

    Not everyone has three address fields that need filling in.

    The shortest form of an address is:
    Building number and street
    Town
    Postcode

    So only that's 2 address lines redundant. You could needlessly split the building number and street up but there is still a third line you nay have no use of.

    Someone wasn't thinking things through when they built that address form.
     
    Last edited: 26 Mar 2020 at 13:39
  26. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    The way things are going I suspect very few TOCs will be able to process refunds. LNER have closed all their Travel Centers from today.
     
  27. gtat

    gtat Member

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    I guess one could also argue that as Dougal is working from home, he isn't actually 'out of pocket' regarding his season ticket anyway. I.e. any refund he receives is a saving compared to his typical working schedule. This is the situation I'm in - I'd already budgeted for and bought my season ticket, so if I get money back for it then that is a bonus, but I'm not really losing out by not using it. Of course it is different if someone is now unable to work or has lost their job because of the situation.
     
  28. amarshe

    amarshe Member

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    Does anyone know who operates the 'excess fares' office by platform 15 at London Bridge? I bought my annual season ticket there in June 2019, but Southern and SouthEastern ticket offices can't find my details on their system (and so can't give me a refund / changeover)...
     
  29. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Associate Staff Senior Fares Advisor

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    Platform 15 would tend to suggest Southern, but it isn't guaranteed. If you paid by credit card can you gain any clues by looking at your statement to see who charged you?
     
  30. amarshe

    amarshe Member

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    Yup, that thought sprung to mind and after a bit of digging it is indeed Southern. I'll just have to write to them.
     

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