Season ticket validity to different Cardiff stations

[mp01]

My question at some level is simple: is it possible to purchase a season ticket (from Pontypridd) that is valid to both Cardiff Central and Cardiff Bay? And if so, how?

The background to this is that my new job takes me sometimes to the bay and sometimes to central, so it will work out a bit cheaper and a bit more convenient if this is possible.

It seems to me that in the old days when there was a Cardiff station group, this would have been possible as I would assume that the season ticket would have been marked "Cardiff stations".

I guess the reality is that there's a chance that some inspectors on the bay line (if I had a season ticket to central) or at central station (if I had one to the bay) would wave me through, but it would be worth knowing if anyone's aware of a local concession that would allow this routinely?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[John @ home]

A Cardiff Bay - Pontypridd seson ticket is valid via Cathays or via Waun-gron Park. As a result it can be used for journeys starting or finishing at Cardiff Central.

 

[mp01]

Thanks John, that's helpful to know. Would this be widely known by on-train and station staff on those routes, or am I likely to run into awkward conversations? Is there anything publicly available on the web that explains this, or if it's all private within the railway ticketing system, what would I quote if challenged?

 

[Romilly]

If you use National Rail Enquiries to find a journey from Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay, and use the advanced options to get a journey avoiding Llandaf, you will find that Pontypridd-Cardiff Bay tickets are valid for a Pontypridd-Cardiff Central-Cardiff Queen Street-Cardiff Bay journey (and for return the same way). A season ticket is valid for routes for which the corresponding day tickets are valid. In addition, a season ticket allows you to make multiple journeys over any part of the routes for which the season ticket is valid.

 

[davetheguard]

Thanks John, that's helpful to know. Would this be widely known by on-train and station staff on those routes, or am I likely to run into awkward conversations? Is there anything publicly available on the web that explains this, or if it's all private within the railway ticketing system, what would I quote if challenged?

If you buy a season ticket from Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay, it is available to board or alight at any intermediate station (including Cardiff Central) if you wish. This is a very well known fact among railway staff; I would be very surprised indeed if anyone was to question it.

 

[John @ home]

Would this be widely known by on-train and station staff on those routes ... ?

I would be surprised to encounter a member of staff who did not think that both Pontypridd - Waun-gron Park - Cardiff Central - Cardiff Queen Street - Cardiff Bay and Pontypridd - Cathays - Cardiff Queen Street - Cardiff Bay are permitted routes for a Pontypridd - Cardiff Bay journey.

am I likely to run into awkward conversations?

In my opinion, no.

Is there anything publicly available on the web that explains this ... ?

The technical reasons why both routes are valid are:

• Page 1 of the National Routeing Guide Instructions tells us "Most customers wish to make journeys by through trains or by the shortest route. In both cases they will be travelling on a permitted route, provided the correct fare has been paid to reflect any routeing restrictions indicated by the fares data. Reference to National Routeing Guide data is only required when a customer is not using an advertised through train or the shortest route." The shortest route by rail from Pontypridd to Cardiff Bay is Pontypridd, Trefforest, Trefforest Estate, Taffs Well, Radyr, Llandaf, Cathays, Cardiff Queen Street, Cardiff Bay (12.75 miles). That is therefore a Permitted Route.
• The National Routeing Guide Routeing Point Identifier shows us (on page 12 of 70) that the only Routeing Point associated with Cardiff Bay is Cardiff Central, and (on page 50 of 70) that Pontypridd is a Routeing Point. The Guide's Permitted Route Identifier shows us (on page 1531 of 2268) that the only mapped route between Pontypridd and Cardiff Central is shown on map LW. That map shows a direct line between Pontypridd and Cardiff Central which does not pass through any other Routeing Point. This allows travel between Pontypridd and Cardiff Central by any route which does not pass through any other Routeing Point (and does not pass through any intermediate station more that once other than in defined circumstances). The shortest such route is Pontypridd, Trefforest, Trefforest Estate, Taffs Well, Radyr, Danescourt, Fairwater, Waun-Gron Park, Ninian Park, Cardiff Central (12.25 miles). From Cardiff Central Routeing Point, the shortest route by rail to the destination Cardiff Bay is Cardiff Central, Cardiff Queen Street, Cardiff Bay (1.5 miles). Thus Pontypridd, Trefforest, Trefforest Estate, Taffs Well, Radyr, Danescourt, Fairwater, Waun-Gron Park, Ninian Park, Cardiff Central, Cardiff Queen Street, Cardiff Bay (13.75 miles) is a Permitted Route.

A season ticket is valid for routes for which the corresponding day tickets are valid. In addition, a season ticket allows you to make multiple journeys over any part of the routes for which the season ticket is valid.

Agreed.

 

[mp01]

Thanks very much all, that's really helpful.

I was thinking earlier about the "avoiding Llandaf" option - which is of course what some of the Treherbert trains do, so on that basis it would seem perfectly legitimate to take a "fast" Treherbert train as far as Central, chaging there and at Queen St to get to the bay.

 

[twpsaesneg]

Out of interest, would the same be possible from the Rhymney Valley and Coryton branches? Obviously the "via Waungron Park" route isn't available here.

 

[kieron]

Maybe. What you're looking for are trains betwen Cardiff Bay and Cardiff Central.

Page F7 of the routeing guide says the journey it describes is valid on direct trains to and from a common routeing point.

Cardiff Central is a routeing point associated with Cardiff Bay, and also with each of the stations on the Coryton and Rymney lines.

There's a 23:54 from Cardiff Bay to Cardiff Central today, and an 08:54 from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Bay on Sunday.

Putting this all together, someone with a season ticket from (say) Coryton to Cardiff Bay could use it to take a direct train from Coryton to Cardiff Central followed by a direct train from Cardiff Central to Cardiff Bay. As a season ticket, this could be done at any point during the ticket's validity period. As a season, the journey can begin and end at any intermediate station on the route. Logically, this would include travelling from Coryton to Cardiff Central and leaving the station there.

Whether or not you wish to catch a train which is only valid on your ticket because of another train which you don't intend to catch is a matter of taste.

 

[Dai Corner]

It's worth noting that the fares from Pontypridd to Cardiff Central and Cardiff Bay are the same so its a good idea to buy a ticket to the latter even if you don't regularly travel there.