Seat reservation policy on Transpennine Express

[jawr256]

Hi,

I regularly book tickets between Preston and Manchester and have noticed that if I choose a Transpennine Express service and a ticket with no operator restriction and request a reservation, the Transpennine Express website gives the following message:

There are no more seats available to reserve for your chosen ticket. You can buy this ticket without reservations or you can change your service or ticket selection and try again.

Other booking sites such as Northern or Virgin simply say "reservations not available".

However, if I then change my selection to a TPE-only walk-up or advance ticket, the system gives me a reservation.

It seems they're trying to reduce no-shows and maximise sales of their own tickets, but at the same time this is encouraging Any Permitted ticket holders not to use their overcrowded services. I would therefore hope that TPE's revenue for affected Any Permitted tickets is adjusted as a result, but that seems unlikely.

Is this sort of policy more widespread?

 

[Wallsendmag]

TPE don’ t like you booking on their trains for short journeys Newcastle to York is another shirt journey where you can’t book

 

[takno]

TPE don’ t like you booking on their trains for short journeys Newcastle to York is another shirt journey where you can’t book

That's not particularly short. I would have thought that would feel like forever on a Transpennine train.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Flexible Tickets are hatred for reservations but Advance obviously still come with a reservation

 

[Haywain]

Flexible Tickets are hatred for reservations but Advance obviously still come with a reservation

Hatred??

I think what my erstwhile colleague is saying is that TPE do not appear to allow reservations other than for Advance tickets. They can do this quite easily through NRS by simply not giving any seats against the relevant quotas. Other TOCs manage Advance tickets with 'counted place' reservations but TPE must see the reservation as a selling point for Advance tickets. This probably also explains the difficulty getting "& connections" tickets to reserve on their trains.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Barred was what I was meaning damm autocorrect , took three attempts that time

 

[BurtonM]

On a related note, they're clearly not going to want me booking Stalybridge - Manchester CTLZ/Stns then are they?
This being true how might I get a cycle reservation for such services? They seem to obfuscate how you actually go about making one .

 

[transmanche]

That's not particularly short. I would have thought that would feel like forever on a Transpennine train.

64 minutes in the carriage where the engines are switched off? TBH, that's far better than most of the alternatives!

 

[ricoblade]

I just found this thread as I am trying to book Doncaster to Sheffield for Saturday. The TPE service is at the most convenient time and is one of the faster ones. However, there are no advance tickets available and it won't let me reserve seats on an anytime ticket. Has anyone any idea whether this is policy as the posts above might indicate of whether it's actually full. TPE is going out of its way to make me not book this journey with them!

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

I just found this thread as I am trying to book Doncaster to Sheffield for Saturday. The TPE service is at the most convenient time and is one of the faster ones. However, there are no advance tickets available and it won't let me reserve seats on an anytime ticket. Has anyone any idea whether this is policy as the posts above might indicate of whether it's actually full. TPE is going out of its way to make me not book this journey with them!

It's now possible to reserve seats on the day of travel, just as has been possible on CrossCountry for several years already. Use https://lastminute.tpexpress.co.uk. There is a selection of 6 standard class seats and 1 first class seat. If you get in your reservation before the train starts its journey there's even a chance your reservation might be specifically noted - otherwise it's quite normal for there to be no label. The reservations nevertheless apply and I've never had any issues with people saying they don't, when I've done this before.

It's a very unsatisfactory situation, and I wonder whether it will be as easy to get on the day reservations in a few years' time when more people are aware of the service, but for now it is a 'sticking plaster'.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's now possible to reserve seats on the day of travel, just as has been possible on CrossCountry for several years already. Use https://lastminute.tpexpress.co.uk. There is a selection of 6 standard class seats and 1 first class seat. If you get in your reservation before the train starts its journey there's even a chance your reservation might be specifically noted - otherwise it's quite normal for there to be no label. The reservations nevertheless apply and I've never had any issues with people saying they don't, when I've done this before.

This Web implementation is rather better than XC's cack-handed SMS based system...

 

[ricoblade]

It's now possible to reserve seats on the day of travel, just as has been possible on CrossCountry for several years already. Use https://lastminute.tpexpress.co.uk. There is a selection of 6 standard class seats and 1 first class seat. If you get in your reservation before the train starts its journey there's even a chance your reservation might be specifically noted - otherwise it's quite normal for there to be no label. The reservations nevertheless apply and I've never had any issues with people saying they don't, when I've done this before.

It's a very unsatisfactory situation, and I wonder whether it will be as easy to get on the day reservations in a few years' time when more people are aware of the service, but for now it is a 'sticking plaster'.

Thanks - I was on the TPE site and got "No reservations available" so are you saying you have to use a separate site on the day that they don't point you to?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Thanks - I was on the TPE site and got "No reservations available" so are you saying you have to use a separate site on the day that they don't point you to?

"No reservations available" on a reservable service either means it's fully booked (possible, but only very rare, mostly happening on bank holidays and major sporting events etc.), or they have blocked reservations. Yes, they don't advertise the Last Minute Reservation service very widely - I only found out about it by trawling through their Twitter!

 

[ricoblade]

Well, if that's their policy they've succeeded in forcing me to use another TOC. I've got seats on the Cross Country service 17 minutes later that is actually 7 minutes faster, so only 10 minutes difference.

 

[yorkie]

Well, if that's their policy they've succeeded in forcing me to use another TOC. I've got seats on the Cross Country service 17 minutes later that is actually 7 minutes faster, so only 10 minutes difference.

That's what they want; inter-available ticket holders to use other operators (e.g. XC) thus freeing up seats for TPE Only ticket holders.

TPE have found a loophole in the ORCATS system: they still get the same amount of income from your ticket, while increasing revenues from increased sales of TPE Only tickets.

I doubt the DfT cares, the Ombudsman doesn't seem able to do anything about policy issues, Transport Focus won't do anything.

However it sounds to me like an abuse of a dominant position; I'll have a word with some competition law experts and see what they think, but the cost of bringing TPE to account is likely to be too great, so they will get away with it.

 

[ricoblade]

That's what they want; inter-available ticket holders to use other operators (e.g. XC) thus freeing up seats for XC Only ticket holders.

TPE have found a loophole in the ORCATS system: they still get the same amount of income from your ticket, while increasing revenues from increased sales of TPE Only tickets.

I doubt the DfT cares, the Ombudsman doesn't seem able to do anything about policy issues, Transport Focus won't do anything.

However it sounds to me like an abuse of a dominant position; I'll have a word with some competition law experts and see what they think, but the cost of bringing TPE to account is likely to be too great, so they will get away with it.

Hi Yorkie - I think you meant TPE Only in your first sentence. I've not booked with TPE so they are getting 0 pounds from this journey. There were no TPE only tickets available (I've used these many times before and there were some very good deals), let alone any reservations.

 

[yorkie]

I've not booked with TPE so they are getting 0 pounds from this journey. There were no TPE only tickets available (I've used these many times before and there were some very good deals), let alone any reservations.

Their policy is to deter inter-available ticket holders choosing to travel on their trains, by denying them the ability to obtain a seat reservations in certain circumstances.

If those inter-available ticket holders then select a different operators' train, TPE still get their ORCATS proportion of the money from the sale of the inter-available fare, but they gain because the customer is not taking up space on their train.

 

[DaveB10780]

Can this really be allowed, they won't let me reserve a seat on an Off Peak return from Manchester to Edinburgh either out or back. This is a long journey and with this 10 minute reservation policy you could end up playing musical chairs or standing. Is there no way around this?

 

[yorkie]

Can this really be allowed, they won't let me reserve a seat on an Off Peak return from Manchester to Edinburgh either out or back. This is a long journey and with this 10 minute reservation policy you could end up playing musical chairs or standing. Is there no way around this?

Which train is it?

 

[DaveB10780]

12:26 from Piccadilly on Thu 15th and 14:12 from Edinburgh on Sun 18th. At least the thread has shown the web address for on the day and I get up pretty early. I kind of understand why they do it probably to make sure there are not loads of reserved seats unused as much as extra revenue,

 

[Merseysider]

There are probably cheaper splits available, but buying Manchester -> Preston and Preston -> Edinburgh Off Peak Returns (TPE Only for both) works out £3 cheaper than the through fare, and as both tickets are TPE only, you should be able to reserve a seat whilst purchasing.

 

[_toommm_]

Can this really be allowed, they won't let me reserve a seat on an Off Peak return from Manchester to Edinburgh either out or back. This is a long journey and with this 10 minute reservation policy you could end up playing musical chairs or standing. Is there no way around this?

If you can, go to a ticket office, but not a TPE one. They should reserve you a seat no problem.

 

[takno]

There are probably cheaper splits available, but buying Manchester -> Preston and Preston -> Edinburgh Off Peak Returns (TPE Only for both) works out £3 cheaper than the through fare, and as both tickets are TPE only, you should be able to reserve a seat whilst purchasing.

Doesn't that halve the number of trains you can use though? I also seem to remember being on the Virgin train following a cancelled TPE train up the west coast. The station staff had directed everybody onto the Virgin train and the train manager was taking great pleasure in telling all the TPE-only ticket holders that he was going to ching them for full fare if they didn't get off at the next station and wait an hour.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If you can, go to a ticket office, but not a TPE one. They should reserve you a seat no problem.

Only if there's a quota available, though? And that's the issue, TPE reduce the reservation quota for walk-up tickets. This practice started with VTEC

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I believe there is a period coming up whereby only counted places will be offered on Scottish services, with no actual seat reservations for anybody, due to the introduction of new trains and the different coach and seat layouts possible during the transition.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Only if there's a quota available, though? And that's the issue, TPE reduce the reservation quota for walk-up tickets. This practice started with VTEC

No it didn't TPE are the old masters at this

 

[gray1404]

For TPE 10 minute on the day reservations is the seat that you are given reserved for the entire journey? Is there at least something on the seat to say it may be reserved during the journey?

 

[_toommm_]

For TPE 10 minute on the day reservations is the seat that you are given reserved for the entire journey? Is there at least something on the seat to say it may be reserved during the journey?

There used to be when it was first introduced - a custom ticket stating it may be reserved throughout the journey, and a link the the TMR service. I've not seen one in the past month though.

The seats are a block of 8??? IIRC from Coach B, around one of the tables behind the doors at the coach ends.

 

[route101]

Was on a TPE service from Manchester Airport to Glasgow Central and managed to sit in two seats on the bounce that did not have reservation slips , the lady must of forgot to put them out , i see TPE put seat reservations in all coaches except for small area in one coach .

 

[gray1404]

There used to be when it was first introduced - a custom ticket stating it may be reserved throughout the journey, and a link the the TMR service. I've not seen one in the past month though.

The seats are a block of 8??? IIRC from Coach B, around one of the tables behind the doors at the coach ends.

This could lead to problems then in that you board the train and the seat is not reserved. Someone else could be sat in it if there is no notice on it indicating it is reserved.