Seatfrog and Virgin Trains East Coast

[ainsworth74]

It would appear that the latest innovation from Virgin has landed. They've partnered with a company called Seatfrog to allow holders of Standard Class APs to bid for first class upgrades.

There is more info on the Seatfrog website here:

http://seatfrog.com

Enter your booking reference. We’ll show you what upgrades are available for your trip.

Bid to win on the day or upgrade instantly with our Upgrade Now feature. It’s free to join. You only pay if you win.

The moment you win, we’ll send your upgrade to your phone. It’s that easy.

I can't find a press release or similar from VTEC other than a tweet announcing it here:

https://mobile.twitter.com/Virgin_TrainsEC/status/910398101021712384?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet

Drumroll, please! Introducing @Seatfrog, the seat-bidding app that lets you upgrade to first class from just £5! #lastminuteupgrades

 

[The North Briton]

It's fair to say, it's not been universally welcomed on Twitter, especially by existing FC customers!

 

[broadgage]

Sounds a good way to complicate travel and introduce ANOTHER source of argument and dispute.
What if the seat bid for was already taken by a first class customer who was in the toilet at the time.
What if a first class customer boards en-route and finds no space due to vacant seats being bid for at the stop before.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sounds a good way to complicate travel and introduce ANOTHER source of argument and dispute.
What if the seat bid for was already taken by a first class customer who was in the toilet at the time.
What if a first class customer boards en-route and finds no space due to vacant seats being bid for at the stop before.

Virgin explain that the seats available for upgrade will be reserved before the train starts its journey.

 

[The North Briton]

What if a first class customer boards en-route and finds no space due to vacant seats being bid for at the stop before.

Apparently, the seat will be reserved in advance for the 'lucky' winner!

 

[gavin]

This new upgrade will only be available on selected services and you must buy a standard class ticket direct from VT national rail and others doesn't count

 

[gavin]

Bit more on it here it is only available Monday to Friday presumably due to the weekend 1st class upgrades which are already available subject to space

 

[AlterEgo]

It's a good idea from a commercial perspective.

When I was about 20 I booked First Class on GNER, Darlington-London, on one of their HSTs (back in the days when they had table lamps and plush ochre-coloured IC70s).

Never looked back. On intercity routes my default preference is now First Class and only rarely travel in Standard.

 

[Darandio]

This reply tickled me....

Replying to @Virgin_TrainsEC and @Seatfrog
I'd imagine those who've paid 1st class like the idea of having some empty seats & quiet. If you want 1st class pay for a 1st class ticket

 

[bb21]

It's a good idea from a commercial perspective.

Why do some TOCs not bother much with innovation?

I guess the reactions in this thread sums up one of the reasons pretty well.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Only valid with Virgin's iOS/Android apps.
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...seatfrog-first-class-upgrade-auction-app.html

Passengers open the app, enter their ticket booking reference, and then choose to either upgrade immediately or compete against each other in an ‘open and honest auction’ with upgrades costing from £5. Bidding is open from 2½ h to 30 min before the train departs from its origin station.

 

[ainsworth74]

Isn't it Seatfrog's app?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Isn't it Seatfrog's app?

Well, the designated app, whoever's it is.
Excludes dinosaurs like me on Windows phones and PCs!

 

[Merseysider]

That's quite exciting.

Hope it comes to the West Coast too

 

[Joe Paxton]

Looks like an idea borrowed from the airline industry, where bidding for an upgrade is offered by some airlines.

 

[gavin]

Local press are reporting passengers are not happy

RAIL passengers unhappy at the prospect of a journey on the East Coast Mainline in standard class can now bid for an upgrade.

Empty first class seats on selected Virgin Trains East Coast services are being auctioned through a smartphone app shortly before departure.

Prices start from £5 for a seat in first class carriages featuring complimentary food and drink, free wi-fi, reclining leather seats and extra legroom.

Upgrades are initially available on some weekday services from London King’s Cross to Edinburgh, Leeds, Newcastle and York, with more routes expected to be added shortly.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/ne..._East_Coast_auctions_empty_first_class_seats/

 

[FQTV]

It's a good idea from a commercial perspective.

When I was about 20 I booked First Class on GNER, Darlington-London, on one of their HSTs (back in the days when they had table lamps and plush ochre-coloured IC70s).

Never looked back. On intercity routes my default preference is now First Class and only rarely travel in Standard.

Since VTEC took over, I have increasingly booked Standard in preference. First has become far too irritating with either service failures, or the service becoming increasingly intrusive and tailored to meet the company's needs, not the passengers'. Lunch at 11am? Nothing at 1pm? Complaining (understandably) carriage-mates.

At least in Standard, expectations are low and most people just seem to hunker down and stick a pair of mug plugs in.

This new idea isn't even particular popular in the airline industry. It's just a way of assuaging (particularly) frequent flyers who twist that there are empty seats up front. With schemes like this, the airline can deflect them by saying 'we gave you an opportunity'. The fact that it's completely opaque precludes much specific criticism, though.

Ultimately, the public mood is for simplification of fares. If the train companies are carting around thin air in First Class then they need to sort out their dynamic pricing first, and if the service is heavily-subsidised they should perhaps be spot-audited on how many seats that they have failed to sell.

Finally, in a commercial environment where there's opportunity for additional spend in the upgraded-from accommodation, such as trolley (ahem) or buffet, but the same is complimentary in the upgraded-to accommodation, then you run a real risk of customers downgrading their bookings in the hope of an upgrade offer, successfully bidding for one and the on-spend shrinking to zero.

For it to be a commercially rational system, the passenger must end up paying/spending more for less overall.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Mod Note: This post was originally in this thread.

Today VTEC announce their partnership with Seatfrog, it's been offered for a while but I'm guessing that was a pilot as they've made it official today.

Seatfrog is a system where people bid for upgrades. So if there's, say, 5 seats available to bid on a particular service they'll go to the top 5 bidders. Minimum bid £5.

Seatfrog is normally used by airlines who are having difficulty filling up business class. It gives people a way to upgrade for less while not offering the lower price on the main website.

Now in typical VTEC style this is a complete balls up.

It only works for bookings where you collect at the station. This is because it relies on the collection ref and not the booking ref (which are different since the new website launched). So people who print at home, mTickets or postal deliveries can't participate. Also looking at tweets you can't participate if you have any non-VTEC legs in your booking.

As only tickets purchased through the VTEC website are eligible why didn't they make it work with the booking reference everyone gets, rather than the collection code?

 

[WelshBluebird]

Seems pretty tacky to me! If there are free seats why not extend the weekend first upgrades to the weekday services? Hell you could even do it via an app like this and have a first come first serve ability to reserve seats. Much less tacky than an auction system.

As for how they are doing it - how do they know how many first class seats will be free for them to auction? We have a turn up and go railway, people who paid a lot of money for walk up first class tickets presumably won't be happy at the prospect of not being able to get a first class seat because the free seats were auctioned off before the service left its initial origin station!

 

[Mag_seven]

I assume that a limited number of seats will be designated for this and will already have "reserved" labels on them prior to departure? And I assume you can only bid for the full journey?

 

[infobleep]

I assume that a limited number of seats will be designated for this and will already have "reserved" labels on them prior to departure? And I assume you can only bid for the full journey?

That is five less seats that someone turning up suddenly can't then use.

Still to be fair to VTEC, you are paying to be in the first class area, not to actually have a seat. Seats are a bonous, unless to reserve one, so if VTEC would rather give them to someone else who bid, then so be it. In practice I imagine this will be for trains that rarely get busy so won't be a problem.

 

[Mojo]

It also only works if you are travelling alone! They say the feature for group bookings is coming soon. Sounds like another thing they rushed out without actually thinking it through.

 

[Starmill]

The principle is a very good one, although it doesn't gain you much over just selling more reasonably priced First Advance tickets, including on the day (which is something they do not seem to bother with in my experience).

There have been similar things in the past where people are emailed upgrade vouchers for £15 or £20 to move from Standard to First. This was good because if people took it the company gained the small amount of revenue and the goodwill, but the main reason they were doing it was because the train was heavily reserved and likely to be overcrowded in Standard class, and they were able to sell one marginal standard class advance that was very expensive once that person's seat reservation had been cancelled. I wonder if this is pushing on similar incentives. Clearly it does need a bit more work but it looks like a great idea!

In fact, I have often tried to offer guards cash for an upgrade, including one memorable occasion on a 180 for my journey from Worcester to Oxford in the middle of the day where there was exactly nobody in First Class. The guard said all they were able to do was charge me £32 for an FDS if I wanted to sit there, despite the fact I had already paid (I had a Standard class rover). Obviously I declined and they got nothing! Some more demand-responsive upgrades are definitely a good idea, but again one might think that a solution to that is to actually offer reasonable prices for First Advances - and also make sure that the offer is always high quality.

 

[47271]

I don't have a problem with the basic idea, but right now they've more need to get their existing online experience working properly than to be fiddling around with this.

I can see that it might be attractive to some people, but to be honest I'm pretty canny with the First advances I buy off them and wouldn't waste time jockeying around ahead of travel.

Now, if GWR offered it with their stupid First Class pricing and empty carriages then I might be interested... lol

 

[aar0]

It only works for bookings where you collect at the station. This is because it relies on the collection ref and not the booking ref (which are different since the new website launched). So people who print at home, mTickets or postal deliveries can't participate. Also looking at tweets you can't participate if you have any non-VTEC legs in your booking.

As only tickets purchased through the VTEC website are eligible why didn't they make it work with the booking reference everyone gets, rather than the collection code?

I thought I'd give the app a go, and it asks for your "booking reference", and in VTEC's email, they give either a "Collection Ref" (their cool abbreviation ), and a transaction reference - so I put in the latter, and it didn't work. Bah.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I don't have a problem with the basic idea, but right now they've more need to get their existing online experience working properly than to be fiddling around with this.

I can see that it might be attractive to some people, but to be honest I'm pretty canny with the First advances I buy off them and wouldn't waste time jockeying around ahead of travel.

Now, if GWR offered it with their stupid First Class pricing and empty carriages then I might be interested... lol

This is a totally separate work stream to the new site with only minimal input from the team that brought you the new site TVMs and DORIS


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Clip]

Seems pretty tacky to me! If there are free seats why not extend the weekend first upgrades to the weekday services? Hell you could even do it via an app like this and have a first come first serve ability to reserve seats. Much less tacky than an auction system.

!

But then that is a fixed price system whereas an auction system like this could get winners at a fiver and winners at possibly £50 maybe more if they were peak trains so its quite a canny way of getting more money for very little outlay

 

[SaveECRewards]

It also only works if you are travelling alone! They say the feature for group bookings is coming soon. Sounds like another thing they rushed out without actually thinking it through.

That's happening way too often these days:
- Staff cutbacks on board without thinking through properly how to have minimal impact on the customer experience (done right there was probably some room for cost savings but they went overboard or cut in the wrong places)
- Ticket machines, too many issues didn't seem to be usability tested. Also reliability issues.
- Website, missing functionality that we've had since 2007, some key functionality such as changing tickets, others nice to have like cycle reservations, carnets, catering vouchers...
- The Travel Buddy app - just a bunch of links and a ticket wallet (why not use eTickets that can use the native wallet like VTWC) that crashes for many

As well as the problems identified with the app, offering upgrades in an auction does cheapen the process. If people start seeing first class as only been worth paying £5-10 to upgrade then they may not bother. If someone upgrades for a fiver and has some hot food and more than one alcoholic drink then surely they're making a loss?

I prefer the BA approach. If they want to shift seats in the higher classes they'll give you an upgrade offer in the app. It's a lot cheaper than the list price, but not a ridiculously low bargain. You can take the offer while it's there if it appeals. It's better than having to faff around with auctions.

It does feel like everything they've done this year has been a disappointment.

 

[SaveECRewards]

Seems pretty tacky to me! If there are free seats why not extend the weekend first upgrades to the weekday services? Hell you could even do it via an app like this and have a first come first serve ability to reserve seats. Much less tacky than an auction system.

They do something similar, they send out emails to people offering them a £20 upgrade, you show the email to the guard and then they issue you with a £20 'weekday first' ticket, although they're only supposed to issue this on presentation of an email, you can't just board and take your chances.

If they did it any other way it would be complicated as you'd certainly not want all trains offering cheap upgrades and also if the 'weekday first' trains were already known it'd hit sales of first class on these services.

But then that is a fixed price system whereas an auction system like this could get winners at a fiver and winners at possibly £50 maybe more if they were peak trains so its quite a canny way of getting more money for very little outlay

They claim it's only going to be offered on quiet trains, but of course some people may go overboard with the bidding. Let's just hope if they've bid £50+ they're not subjected to the catering shortages.

 

[Tetchytyke]

It's a bit better than the existing "reward" of cheap 1st class upgrades on presentation of an email. It's more transparent for one thing.

Still tacky and just going to annoy those who've paid top walk-up dollar for first class.