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Security Alert on Eurostar

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djh1986

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The 8.26 St Panc to Paris train was delayed at Ebbsfleet yesterday for a security alert, shocking scenes of organisation and communication from Eurostar as per normal.

Stopped at Ebbsfleet to pick up and ended up sitting there for a good 20 minutes before the announcement came that there was a signalling problem in the area. This began to look fishy when 10 minutes later, a Eurostar whizzed past on another track at about 125mph yet another announcement came that it was a signalling problem. Then after we'd been sat there for thirty minutes and BTP officers boarded the train, it looked like one weird signalling problem.

I asked a gentleman who I presumed was a cleaner or platform staff, wasn't train crew what the problem was and how long the delay would be as communication had been poor and I was only going to Paris for the day. I got told to sit down before he said "do you know what kind of a world we live in and what day it is today?".

Eventually, the female train manager came in and explained the situation exceptionally well. She apologised for the misinformation and the delay and said that a passenger had been arrested and they had to search the trains baggage due to a security alert and it wasn't safe for the train to proceed to the channel tunnel. The arrested woman came in and identified three of her bags before they took them off the train and simply opened them up on the platform. They then said they needed to identify everyones luggage on the train and mark it with chalk, they seemed to start this process and then abandon it halfway through though!

Full story is on the Racing Post site as it was a big horse racing day in Paris (hence my travel): http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/british-travellers-to-arc-trials-delayed-by-eurostar-arrests/914261/top/

Was a 90 minute delay in the end and seemed a fuss about nothing. It can't have been that serious if the train didn't need to be evacuated yet "wasn't safe to travel through the tunnel" and then for them to just open the luggage on the platform next to the train.

The whole episode seemed to be full of needless self importance by certain members of staff and excessive melodramatics. Whenever I'm delayed with Eurostar, I find the communication to be absolutely dire. Upon applying for compensation, I will be praising the excellent female train manager (the male one who made the announcements didn't sound like he had a clue, think he was in the opposite end to the incident though in fairness) but will give them both barrels over their overall communication as a company and the employee who spouted reactionary and scare filled responses upon politely asking for the cause and time of the delay!
 
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Roylang

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The arrested woman came in and identified three of her bags before they took them off the train and simply opened them up on the platform. They then said they needed to identify everyones luggage on the train and mark it with chalk, they seemed to start this process and then abandon it halfway through though!

In no way am I trying to defind the lack of communications here. However, the identification of baggage and the reconciliation of passengers to baggage in the event of a passenger leaving the train prior to travel through thr tunnel is standard policy and has been for many years.

Several times I have been on a train that has been delayed and then further delayed by a passenger who decides that they have to get off before the tunnel as a result.

Roy
 

thefab444

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The 8.26 St Panc to Paris train was delayed at Ebbsfleet yesterday for a security alert, shocking scenes of organisation and communication from Eurostar as per normal.

Stopped at Ebbsfleet to pick up and ended up sitting there for a good 20 minutes before the announcement came that there was a signalling problem in the area. This began to look fishy when 10 minutes later, a Eurostar whizzed past on another track at about 125mph yet another announcement came that it was a signalling problem. Then after we'd been sat there for thirty minutes and BTP officers boarded the train, it looked like one weird signalling problem.

Surely if they had said "We are awaiting assistance from the BTP", the people in question would have just run off. Better to lie to keep them on the train.
 

mallard

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Surely if they had said "We are awaiting assistance from the BTP", the people in question would have just run off. Better to lie to keep them on the train.

Where would they have gone? Surely the doors wouldn't have been unlocked at this time? Even if they did get off, I assume there are security staff at Ebbsfleet who could deal with somebody fleeing a train?
 

djh1986

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Surely if they had said "We are awaiting assistance from the BTP", the people in question would have just run off. Better to lie to keep them on the train.

Fair point, the doors were open as it all happened in Ebbsfleet station. A few people who were going for the racing got off and just went back to St Pancras on a SE Highspeed train.

At least make up a believable lie though, anyone with half a brain could see it wasn't a signalling problem!
 

ralphchadkirk

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It sounds like a company has done well to deal with what is a very serious and difficult situation.

And for the record, just because other lines are running does not mean your train cannot move because of a signalling problem. I can think of at least 3 reasons off the top of my head.


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djh1986

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It sounds like a company has done well to deal with what is a very serious and difficult situation.

I'd hardly call it "very serious". One live bullet was found at St Pancras and there was a link to other passengers which proved to be unsubstantiated. We weren't talking suspicions of 10kg of cemtex.

If it was "very serious", they would have evacuated the train and not cracked open three suspicious suitcases on the platform next to a train with a thousand people on.

If it was very serious, they should have cancelled the service at Ebbsfleet.
 

Flamingo

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Regarding the announcements, I have on occasions made "The widget connected to the overhead camshaft has sprung a leak" type announcements. There are many reasons why I would not announce "awaiting police", not least of which is letting the individual whom I was concerned about know that police were on the way, and that they had been clocked.

Apart from anything else, if they do have explosives / weapons, I'd rather they sat there in blissful ignorance, than taking out their weapons and having a "famous last stand" on my train.

It might have been a pain in the arrse if you were stuck on the train, but especially given the day that was in it, I would prefer a good reaction that "it's probably nothing, ignore it.

I will admit, I was nervous working in and out of London yesterday.
 

ralphchadkirk

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I wonder if you can get delay repay for this. Eurostar's conditions of carriage 35.1.3 suggests not.


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bnm

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I'd hardly call it "very serious". One live bullet was found at St Pancras and there was a link to other passengers which proved to be unsubstantiated.

Unsubstantiated after investigation. Better to investigate than dismissing it as not very serious. Imagine if there was a serious incident in the tunnel and it turns out that the police had an opportunity to do something at Ebbsfleet but decided, without investigating, that it wasn't "very serious."

Lying about signalling problems seems justified as well. Won't necessarily spook someone up to no good and won't unduly alarm passengers.

I've been delayed by this type of 'signalling problem' myself in the past. 'Signalling problems' caused by an unruly passenger who was racially abusive to a Customer Host.
 

Crossover

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I agree with Flamingo - besides, saying that you are awaiting police presence could also induce panic. The fact that it was on the day that it was only increases that risk as people are likely to be on edge about it anyway.
 

mickey

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As long as they admit the truth at the end I don't see a problem with a small lie to avoid potential trouble. I'd also point out that as with French trains, all baggage must be labelled on Eurostar trains (including seat number) to permit easy identification in situations like this - imo problems could be avoided if this were enforced more.
 

Crossover

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I'd also point out that as with French trains, all baggage must be labelled on Eurostar trains (including seat number) to permit easy identification in situations like this - imo problems could be avoided if this were enforced more.

I knew nothing about this and I was on Eurostar only a few weeks back so I guess it shows how little it is enforced
 

djh1986

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Correct, refusing to give a refund due to police intervention.

I'll be playing the "that wasn't the original reason given to passengers" card to get the refund.

Not sure what my chances are but I am a loyalty member and have made 11 return journeys this year. We'll see.
 

185

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Knowing Eurostar, this serious safety & security breach will probably originate from a 2nd class passenger sat in 1st, who won't budge :(
 

GB

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I'd hardly call it "very serious". One live bullet was found at St Pancras and there was a link to other passengers which proved to be unsubstantiated. We weren't talking suspicions of 10kg of cemtex.

If it was "very serious", they would have evacuated the train and not cracked open three suspicious suitcases on the platform next to a train with a thousand people on.

If it was very serious, they should have cancelled the service at Ebbsfleet.

Most normal people do not have access to live rounds let alone carry it with them on their persons in a public place. If they have such an item on them its not unreasonable to suggest they might have other things...a gun perhaps. Do you really wan't to risk being stuck in a tunnel with someone potentially being in possession of a firearm?
 

dk1

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I have twice been delayed at Calais due to security issues. Both times it turned out to be the fault of some stupid passengers either leaving luggage or causing problems at security. Both where trivial & totally avoidable if they had a brain but Eurostar/customs thankfully cannot take any risks.
 

WestCoast

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I know it's a cliché, but 'it's always better to be safe than sorry', especially considering the date. It sounds like Eurostar handled the situation reasonably well too.
 

djh1986

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Most normal people do not have access to live rounds let alone carry it with them on their persons in a public place. If they have such an item on them its not unreasonable to suggest they might have other things...a gun perhaps. Do you really wan't to risk being stuck in a tunnel with someone potentially being in possession of a firearm?

Would have been picked up on the baggage scanner at St Pancras you'd hope which was where the bullet was found, on a passenger attempting to board a service leaving after ours had left.
 

Barrett M95

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In the case of a security incident where there is intel or evidence of munitions on board with passengers having knowingly carried them on I can't say Eurostar did anything wrong.

Do you know the exact details of what was being searched for? It sounds to me they knew exactly what they were looking for and stopped searching when it was found hence why they "abandoned" the search. In which case your delay was perfectly reasonable. The problem is very serious and was delt with successfully.

The initial communication was also justified. What would you rather hear in such a situation whether on a train or a plane: "There is an (insert made up problem here) or "please wait while we search for a bomb"? Their need to keep you informed in this case is secondary to neutralising the situation.
 

djh1986

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Do you know the exact details of what was being searched for? It sounds to me they knew exactly what they were looking for and stopped searching when it was found hence why they "abandoned" the search.

They didn't find anything. They found a live bullet at St Pancras in a lady's luggage when going through screening. They suspected passengers on our train had links to the passenger on our service and thus stopped our service, arrested her and took her luggage off the train and searched it on the platform.

The lack of communication and poor organisation of the overall baggage search were my main issues. They said they were going to search the entire train and identify ever piece of luggage, they seemed to start the process (after the woman and her luggage had been taken off) then just decided it wasn't worth the fuss after all, this probably cost us another 30 minutes.
 

Barrett M95

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sounds like gross incompetence, as usual

Can you justify this accusation please? A threat was identified on one of the most sensitive of days imaginable, BTP carried out their duty and the train was safely sent on it's way.


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They didn't find anything. They found a live bullet at St Pancras in a lady's luggage when going through screening. They suspected passengers on our train had links to the passenger on our service and thus stopped our service, arrested her and took her luggage off the train and searched it on the platform.

The lack of communication and poor organisation of the overall baggage search were my main issues. They said they were going to search the entire train and identify ever piece of luggage, they seemed to start the process (after the woman and her luggage had been taken off) then just decided it wasn't worth the fuss after all, this probably cost us another 30 minutes.

I think it sounds like bloody quick thinking on the part of the security teams. I'm sorry but communication issues to passengers late for a horse race is of minor importance in such a case. We do not know the specifics of it all. There could have been more to it and they would not have know unless they searched. Can you imagine the ****storm if they missed something like this that led to something more serious? It sounds like from what you say that the train manager was excellent and your problem is with either BTP or the security teams who have customer satisfaction as a distant second to safety.

 

Greenback

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I think it sounds like bloody quick thinking on the part of the security teams. I'm sorry but communication issues to passengers late for a horse race is of minor importance in such a case. We do not know the specifics of it all. There could have been more to it and they would not have know unless they searched. Can you imagine the ****storm if they missed something like this that led to something more serious? It sounds like from what you say that the train manager was excellent and your problem is with either BTP or the security teams who have customer satisfaction as a distant second to safety.

Agreed. If someone is carrying weapons or ammunition and there is any reason to suspect that accomplices may be on another train, with goodness what that they have managed to smuggle on, it needs to be investigated.

I don't really see what there is to complain about.
 

djh1986

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There could have been more to it and they would not have know unless they searched. Can you imagine the ****storm if they missed something like this that led to something more serious? It sounds like from what you say that the train manager was excellent and your problem is with either BTP or the security teams who have customer satisfaction as a distant second to safety.

There were only two BTP officers there so there can't have been much to it or they'd have had a much heavier presence.

Anyway, going round in circles. I'm miffed with the communication from Eurostar and poor organisation of the non existent baggage search of the whole train together with a member of staff who turned an innocent question into a scare filled reactionary outburst. I do think the whole thing was a storm in a teacup and something that could have been a 30-40 minute delay ended up taking double through poor organisation and reactions.
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Some people would whinge if their arrse was on fire and you peed on them to put it out... :roll:

And likewise, some people wouldn't raise an eyebrow if a TOC set fire to their entire family on Christmas Day. :D
 
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Flamingo

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And likewise, some people wouldn't raise an eyebrow if a TOC set fire to their entire family on Christmas Day. :D

Would never happen, we don't work Christmas Day or Boxing Day ;). We'd wait until Dec 27th
 

EM2

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They said they were going to search the entire train and identify ever piece of luggage, they seemed to start the process (after the woman and her luggage had been taken off) then just decided it wasn't worth the fuss after all, this probably cost us another 30 minutes.
Maybe they had found what they were looking for?
 

djh1986

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As I've already said, and as the article in the OP said, they didn't find anything on our train.
 
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