Security guards helping passengers board TfW trains at Wrexham and Chester (Dec 2018)

[Old Yard Dog]

Last night I took in the Wrexham vs Newport FA Cup tie travelling back from Wellington to Little Sutton after Bradford's win at Telford. I was surprised at how busy the Marches lines was. A large number of young ladies boarded my Chester-bound train when I got off at Wrexham at about 1800 and a surprisingly large number of Wrexham fans made the 2215 to Llandudno Junction standing room only, most continuing beyond Chester along the coast. Some barmpot had made this an 8 pm kick off, meaning Newport supporters couldn't get home by rail - and Wrexham fans would struggle to catch the last 2157 train to Bidston despite the proximity of the station to the ground.

But what really surprised me was the presence of uniformed security guards at both Wrexham General and Chester stations to try and keep order as passengers tried to board the trains. Chester was absolute chaos as maybe 200 people, many with luggage, struggled to get on to the two-car class 175. The security men were needed and I wonder whether everybody managed to get on. Many passengers were angry. Presumably most were heading for the overnight ferry from Holyhead to Dublin. I hope RfW put on sufficient replacement buses from Llandudno Junction.

 

[Intermodal]

Chester usually has a large BTP presence during special events - in the past I've seen up to 10 BTP officers scattered each side of the ticket gates and over on the Merseyrail platforms. Security guards I have not seen before.

 

[Polarbear]

As Intermodal has already mentioned, there’s quite often a police presence at Chester when there are major events in the area. I’ve even noted some BTP there when there’s a sports event on, that’s not taking place in Chester, but they know a lot of supporters (and unfortunately those few who claim to be supporters but are just looking for trouble), will be passing through. One year, I recall a Wrexham vs Tranmere football fixture that resulted in a number of BTP being at Chester.

 

[Meole]

Wrexham and Chester have a long history of cross border violence which manifested itself in football support around 40 years ago.

 

[Carlisle]

Wrexham and Chester have a long history of cross border violence which manifested itself in football support around 40 years ago.

As do many others like Cardiff and Bristol for example.

 

[AntoniC]

I travelled Wrexham General to Chester yesterday on what should have been the 16.06.
It was a 2 car 175 (I think - I dont do train classes) and was fairly full on arrival at Wrexham and standing room only on departure.
(I felt sorry for the 3 passengers in wheelchairs who couldnt get to the wheelchair berths).
At Chester there were a few Carlisle people but no BTP.

 

[185]

But what really surprised me was the presence of uniformed security guards at both Wrexham General and Chester stations

Just of interest, any idea which company the security firm was?

 

[Old Yard Dog]

The presence of security staff at Wrexham was probably football related, but not at Chester. It wasn't a particularly high profile game, with just 5000 present, and Newport is in the opposite direction. Having said that, there were about thirty constables hanging about in Wrexham town centre before the game blocking streets for no obvious reason - and even a police helicopter hovering overhead. It took me back to the 1980s when Wales used to play the likes of England and Holland at the Racecourse - and when Wrexham played in the old European Cup Winners Cup. It also has to be said that towns in North Wales are often boisterous on a Saturday night.

Wrexham vs Chester games, even at non league level, used to be "bubble" games with visiting supporters forced to arrive by coach direct to the ground with a police escort. These arrangements were discontinued last season without too much trouble occurring. The two clubs are now in different divisions.

I didn't notice the identity of the security firm - only that they had no obvious railway or police badges or uniforms.

 

[185]

Cheers

 

[Llandudno]

Last night I took in the Wrexham vs Newport FA Cup tie travelling back from Wellington to Little Sutton after Bradford's win at Telford. I was surprised at how busy the Marches lines was. A large number of young ladies boarded my Chester-bound train when I got off at Wrexham at about 1800 and a surprisingly large number of Wrexham fans made the 2215 to Llandudno Junction standing room only, most continuing beyond Chester along the coast. Some barmpot had made this an 8 pm kick off, meaning Newport supporters couldn't get home by rail - and Wrexham fans would struggle to catch the last 2157 train to Bidston despite the proximity of the station to the ground.

But what really surprised me was the presence of uniformed security guards at both Wrexham General and Chester stations to try and keep order as passengers tried to board the trains. Chester was absolute chaos as maybe 200 people, many with luggage, struggled to get on to the two-car class 175. The security men were needed and I wonder whether everybody managed to get on. Many passengers were angry. Presumably most were heading for the overnight ferry from Holyhead to Dublin. I hope RfW put on sufficient replacement buses from Llandudno Junction.

Standing is a regular occurrence on the last train from Chester to the coast at weekends.
The lack of ticket checks is also a regular occurrence, passengers also board at intermediate stations, again no ticket checks.
You do wonder if TfW have any idea how many people are travelling on this train, hence 2 cars!

 

[diffident]

Standing is a regular occurrence on the last train from Chester to the coast at weekends.
The lack of ticket checks is also a regular occurrence, passengers also board at intermediate stations, again no ticket checks.
You do wonder if TfW have any idea how many people are travelling on this train, hence 2 cars!

Where the railways are concerned, Wrexham is the "forgotten" town in the north.

I've seen security at Wrexham General sporadically, and at random intervals. A few Monday's ago I travelled to Wrexham and there was a security guard there (around 20:00).

On the footballing point - I am really quite surprised that TfW didn't lay on specials from Newport (via the Marches) direct to Wrexham. It's not like the Gerald stock is doing much at the weekend!! Just seems to re-iterate my original point, TfW and the Welsh Assembly as a whole, seem to have forgotten that Wrexham, and the wider North Wales, exists.

 

[krus_aragon]

On the footballing point - I am really quite surprised that TfW didn't lay on specials from Newport (via the Marches) direct to Wrexham. It's not like the Gerald stock is doing much at the weekend!! Just seems to re-iterate my original point, TfW and the Welsh Assembly as a whole, seem to have forgotten that Wrexham, and the wider North Wales, exists.

Were the existing Marches trains insufficient for the passenger load?

Maybe, with the rocky rolling stock availability over the past two weeks, running an additional footex was an unwanted complication.

It's worth recalling that even ATW when used the rake for a rugex for internationals in Cardiff, it was generally unadvertised, and just used as a Marches crowdbuster after the match.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Strengthening to cater for large capacity events in the Wales and Borders area has been on the principal of "rob peter to pay paul" during the Arriva years. Wales playing in Cardiff usually saw Cambrian and Birmingham services short formed.

The new franchise wining bid was scored on its large events management plan. However what this is is not public domain. Whether its anything more than a plan for when Wales play in the millennium stadium remains to be seen. What is clear that for 2019 there will not be much scope to strengthen anything much (the Mk4's and 170's are not due till Dec 19).

2019 Six Nations have only 2 home games and one of them being England a lot of the workload will involve GWR, however theirs world cup warm up matches Wales v England (Principality Stadium) Saturday August 17.
Wales v Ireland (Principality Stadium) Saturday August 31.

Hopefully with the World Cup in September/October there wont be any autumn internationals next year.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

It does seem when theres an event on at the Pricipality, they station security/event staff at stations along the Marsh's line, I've seen them at Abervergenny, Cwmbran, Newport etc

 

[PHILIPE]

It does seem when theres an event on at the Pricipality, they station security/event staff at stations along the Marsh's line, I've seen them at Abervergenny, Cwmbran, Newport etc

Marsh's ?

 

[AndrewE]

Strengthening to cater for large capacity events in the Wales and Borders area has been on the principal of "rob peter to pay paul" during the Arriva years.

Sadly it has been a national problem since privatisation. It's what you get for a lean and mean "efficient, business / shareholder-focussed" railway. The old "inefficient" BR might have had a bit of spare stock at a weekend, or done weekend exams extra fast on a Friday night (using staff overtime) so that stock would be available on Saturday, or paid extra Sunday shifts to catch up. Not in today's world, when the Directors' duty is legally only to their shareholders (while staying theoretically within the law.)

 

[anamyd]

Marsh's ?

Marches, perhaps

 

[MotCO]

Wrexham fans would struggle to catch the last 2157 train to Bidston despite the proximity of the station to the ground.

I wonder whether everybody managed to get on.

If passengers could not get on the last train due to overcrowding, is the TOC reponsible for getting everyone home by laying on taxis?

 

[pt_mad]

Not in today's world, when the Directors' duty is legally only to their shareholders (while staying theoretically within the law.)

Surely their duty is also to the DFT and Welsh Government?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

If passengers could not get on the last train due to overcrowding, is the TOC reponsible for getting everyone home by laying on taxis?

If you have a ticket, then yes.

 

[Sprinter153]

Just of interest, any idea which company the security firm was?

TfW tend to use Silurian Security whose head office is based in Port Talbot.