Services/ Links Lost When Companies Were Split Up

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tbtc

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What examples are there of services/ links that were withdrawn when a company was split up (or a garage sold << please note that I'm not talking about a garage being closed down by an existing operator, but actually sold as a going concern to another operator)?

e.g. I was thinking about the lack of cross-city routes in Manchester, but my knowledge of Mancunian buses only started in the days of GM Buses North/ GM Buses South, so I don't know whether there were more cross-city services in the era when it was all one company (and the two "new" companies decided that it wasn't worth a bus war against a big rival, so just stuck to their respective sides of the conurbation)?

I know that the SBG went through some big changes (e.g. Eastern Scottish running in Monklands, Central Scottish in Dumbarton, Midland Scottish stretching from Perth to Milngavie) but I'm not aware of any services that were withdrawn as a result of the company boundaries being reshaped (presumably there were some - I think that the Edinburgh - Bathgate 16 used to run through to Glasgow at one stage, but this may have ceased well before the Monklands routes passed to Central Scottish).

(to repeat - this isn't about routes scrapped when a depot actually closed - e.g. the Milngavie depot mentioned above was closed in the Kelvin Scottish era - this is about times when depots have changed hands and links have been withdrawn as a result)
 
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Ianno87

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e.g. I was thinking about the lack of cross-city routes in Manchester, but my knowledge of Mancunian buses only started in the days of GM Buses North/ GM Buses South, so I don't know whether there were more cross-city services in the era when it was all one company (and the two "new" companies decided that it wasn't worth a bus war against a big rival, so just stuck to their respective sides of the conurbation)?

The 22 (Bolton-Stockport) somehow managed to lumber on as a join First/Stagecoach operation right until 2017!

Off memory, GM Buses didn't have particularly many cross-city services, but it was orbital routes.like the 22, 400 and 500 that cross the "boundary" between them.
 

Statto

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The 400 continued after the GM Buses split, think first withdrew it early 00s then Blue Bus had a go running it before calling it a day

Arriva operated 82/82A Netherton-Speke, & 86 Crosby-Garston which they split in Liverpool City Centre after buying MTL, northern section of the 82/82A becoming 52/52A Liverpool-Netherton, & 86 becoming 53 Liverpool-Crosby
 

61653 HTAFC

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The Barnsley to Huddersfield services stopped when Stagecoach sold their Huddersfield operations after acquiring Yorkshire Traction. There were a few attempts to restore them but using one bus to run one return trip (plus a return trip to Waterloo depot in between) was never going to work.
 

iantherev

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Stagecoach Wales 73 (Newport - Gloucester) when Chepstow garage (latterly outstation) closed. Now covered by a combination of Newport Transport 73 and Stagecoach West 23/4).
 

Ianno87

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The 400 continued after the GM Buses split, think first withdrew it early 00s then Blue Bus had a go running it before calling it a day

Yes, lasted with First Group until May 2003, when they withdrew and Blue Bus made an attempt until giving up (after a failed Kick-start funding bid) in September 2004.
 

Statto

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More through links being lost, MTL operated the 10 Liverpool-Ashton via St Helens at the time of the takeover by Arriva, Arriva split the 10 to operate Liverpool-St Helens, with the St Helens-Ashton section replaced by extra short 320s
 

daodao

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The 22 (Bolton-Stockport) somehow managed to lumber on as a join First/Stagecoach operation right until 2017!

Off memory, GM Buses didn't have particularly many cross-city services, but it was orbital routes.like the 22, 400 and 500 that cross the "boundary" between them.
Manchester Corporation/City Tramways/Transport (MCT for short) had many cross-city routes, mostly north-south. Some, like route 82 (formerly tram 23) from Chorlton to Oldham Road, were long-established. Some were joint with other municipalities, e.g. routes 95/6 from Whitefield to Parrs Wood were joint with Salford. Some were rush hour services only, e.g. route 72 from Mersey Bank to Booth Hall Hospital. It was a deliberate policy to sever the surviving ones about 40 years ago.
Stagecoach Wales 73 (Newport - Gloucester) when Chepstow garage (latterly outstation) closed. Now covered by a combination of Newport Transport 73 and Stagecoach West 23/4).
The Red and White (latterly National Welsh) 73 service originally extended to Cardiff. I remember catching it once in October 1986 (in lieu of joint Cardiff/Newport service 30) from Dumfries Place (Cardiff) to the Royal Gwent Hospital.
 
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busmanaams

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What examples are there of services/ links that were withdrawn when a company was split up (or a garage sold << please note that I'm not talking about a garage being closed down by an existing operator, but actually sold as a going concern to another operator)?

e.g. I was thinking about the lack of cross-city routes in Manchester, but my knowledge of Mancunian buses only started in the days of GM Buses North/ GM Buses South, so I don't know whether there were more cross-city services in the era when it was all one company (and the two "new" companies decided that it wasn't worth a bus war against a big rival, so just stuck to their respective sides of the conurbation)?

I know that the SBG went through some big changes (e.g. Eastern Scottish running in Monklands, Central Scottish in Dumbarton, Midland Scottish stretching from Perth to Milngavie) but I'm not aware of any services that were withdrawn as a result of the company boundaries being reshaped (presumably there were some - I think that the Edinburgh - Bathgate 16 used to run through to Glasgow at one stage, but this may have ceased well before the Monklands routes passed to Central Scottish).

(to repeat - this isn't about routes scrapped when a depot actually closed - e.g. the Milngavie depot mentioned above was closed in the Kelvin Scottish era - this is about times when depots have changed hands and links have been withdrawn as a result)
The Eastern Scottish service between Edinburgh and Glasgow was curtailed to operate between Edinburgh and Harthill because Central SMT took over Clarkston (Airdrie) depot
 

nickw1

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From what I gather, and I'm not 100% sure of this, the "Stagecoach Hants and Surrey" operation (aka much of the southern part of Alder Valley, covering the Hindhead, Alton and Aldershot depots) was split a few years ago between two Stagecoach divisions, Stagecoach Hampshire (basically Hampshire Bus) and Stagecoach South (basically Southdown), when the Guildford depot opened.

This resulted in the 19 and 71 (formerly interworking at Haslemere, though I think there was a period earlier on when they did not) being split there (and replacing the old 59 town service as the 71 went to Woolmer Hill and 19 to High Lane), with the 19 being an Aldershot route and the 71 being a Guildford route.
 
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neilcobbe

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Wigan lost Ribble routes 124/125 to Blackburn/Preston. North Western ran then jointly for a while with Ribble after they were split off but cut them back to Chorley only but starting in St.Helens.
 

Typhoon

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What examples are there of services/ links that were withdrawn when a company was split up?
If this means at any time, Midland Red (MR) had quite a few long distance routes, such as X91 which was Hereford - Worcester - Stratford - Leicester (covering three of the four eventual MR company areas). It lost the Stratford - Leicester section in 1980 and finished completely at the company break up a year later. Only two journeys a day.
 

Whisky Papa

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Manchester Corporation/City Tramways/Transport (MCT for short) had many cross-city routes, mostly north-south. Some, like route 82 (formerly tram 23) from Chorlton to Oldham Road, were long-established. Some were joint with other municipalities, e.g. routes 95/6 from Whitefield to Parrs Wood were joint with Salford. Some were rush hour services only, e.g. route 72 from Mersey Bank to Booth Hall Hospital. It was a deliberate policy to sever the surviving ones about 40 years ago.
As you say, there were a fair few cross-city services, but I would suggest they were largely severed at deregulation - is that what you a meaning? Although some had been severed - the 64/6 from Peel Green to Stalybridge for example - many had survived until I left in August 1985. The 95/6 you mention above was jointly operated by Salford's former Frederick Road (FK) and Manchester's Birchfields Road (BS), the 82 was jointly worked by Princess Road (PS), Hyde Road (HE) and Oldham (OM) garages, while the 81 and 88 from Chorlton to Bank House and White Moss repectively were both joint PS and Queens Road (QS). Oddly, the 134 from Alkrington to Chorlton (later Stretford) was entirely QS worked - I've no idea why this was. On Chester Road the 112/3 from Sale to Moston were joint PS and HE (or possibly QS?) while over in Eccles the 166 from Brookhouse to Moston was Weaste (WE) and QS joint.

The 22 was not really a long-standing route, not in its Bolton - Stockport form anyway. The "old" 22 had run Eccles - Chorlton - Levenshulme, later to be renumbered 262, and I think it remained thus until deregulation. The 500 was primarily a seasonal service in its original form (useful for planespotting at Ringway but not much else:D) and operated entirely by Bolton. I remember being shown a slideshow in the training school at Bolton they had put together to refresh driver's memories of some of the junctions - a real slideshow of course, not the Powerpoint namesake!
 

DunsBus

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From what I gather, and I'm not 100% sure of this, the "Stagecoach Hants and Surrey" operation (aka much of the southern part of Alder Valley, covering the Hindhead, Alton and Aldershot depots) was split a few years ago between two Stagecoach divisions, Stagecoach Hampshire (basically Hampshire Bus) and Stagecoach South (basically Southdown), when the Guildford depot opened.

This resulted in the 19 and 71 (formerly interworking at Haslemere, though I think there was a period earlier on when they did not) being split there (and replacing the old 59 town service as the 71 went to Woolmer Hill and 19 to High Lane), with the 19 being an Aldershot route and the 71 being a Guildford route.
From what I can recall, the 18 and 19 interworked at Haslemere. Changes in 2012-13 saw the 18 being separated and the 19 revised to interwork with the 71. The Bordon-Haslemere section of the 18 came off around the same time as the 19 and 71 were separated.
 

nickw1

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From what I can recall, the 18 and 19 interworked at Haslemere. Changes in 2012-13 saw the 18 being separated and the 19 revised to interwork with the 71. The Bordon-Haslemere section of the 18 came off around the same time as the 19 and 71 were separated.

Yes, I think that's roughly what I remember. The 19 and 71 (then the 271) definitely interworked in 1993 (when the current pattern, or a version of it, was essentially introduced) and continued to do so right up to, and including, 2000 but I do recall a period, and I can't remember the exact dates or duration, when the 19 and 71's arrival and departure times in Haslemere did not match up - I never did figure out the workings though. Long layovers were involved IIRC, so it was difficult to figure out what was going on - I did not hang around Haslemere long enough to observe the patterns but sounds like there was 18/19 interworking.

After that period, I do remember 19/71 interworking being restored, as you say - before being split up again as a result of the depot rearrangements.

And further back still, pre 1993, so Alder Valley days - the 268 (the 80s and early 90s equivalent of the 18) and the 219 (likewise for the 19) did again interwork - while the 71, then the 271, terminated at Chiddingfold and did not reach Haslemere.
 
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DunsBus

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Yes, I think that's roughly what I remember. The 19 and 71 (then the 271) definitely interworked in 1993 (when the current pattern, or a version of it, was essentially introduced) and continued to do so right up to, and including, 2000 but I do recall a period, and I can't remember the exact dates or duration, when the 19 and 71's arrival and departure times in Haslemere did not match up - I never did figure out the workings though. Long layovers were involved IIRC, so it was difficult to figure out what was going on - I did not hang around Haslemere long enough to observe the patterns but sounds like there was 18/19 interworking.

After that period, I do remember 19/71 interworking being restored, as you say - before being split up again as a result of the depot rearrangements.

And further back still, pre 1993, so Alder Valley days - the 268 (the 80s and early 90s equivalent of the 18) and the 219 (likewise for the 19) did again interwork - while the 71, then the 271, terminated at Chiddingfold and did not reach Haslemere.
I remember being on an Olympian (16629) on a 71/19 working back in August 2013. The Olympian had sat spare in Guildford bus station for much of that day and was brought on stand to run the journey - I think it was a sub for a breakdown. I did the full run, managing to secure an upstairs front seat, and it was most enjoyable.
 

nickw1

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I remember being on an Olympian (16629) on a 71/19 working back in August 2013. The Olympian had sat spare in Guildford bus station for much of that day and was brought on stand to run the journey - I think it was a sub for a breakdown. I did the full run, managing to secure an upstairs front seat, and it was most enjoyable.

Bit OT, but AFAIK double deckers have certainly been rare or possibly non-existent on regular, scheduled workings for many years on the 70/71, and the 19 when it worked through (guessing they were more common when it interworked with the 18 as I recall the 18 was often a double-decker). In the early years of the 19/(2)71 pattern you had a few, but by 2000 they seemed to have disappeared, with the 71 invariably interworking with the 70 which is all single-deck due to the low bridge on the B2131.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
When First Glasgow transferred their garage at Cumbernauld (South Carbrain Road, near the railway station) to Stagecoach (the Ayr based sector, not the Dunfermline based sector), the former FG X2/X4/X5 were renumbered to X25/X25A/X28.

The X2/X4/X5 linked Condorrat and Greenfaulds with Abronhill, via either Seafar Road, the Town Centre, or one of the Carbrain Roads (North or South).

The present day Stagecoach operation has the X25/X25A running direct from the Glasgow Royal Infirmary to A8011 Glasgow Road at Greenfaulds High School straight along the M80, then to Abronhill via either the Town Centre (X25) or North Carbrain Road (X25A). The X28 exits the M80 at Mollinsburn and runs via Condorrat to A8011 Glasgow Road, then Seafar Roundabout, Greenfaulds Road, South Carbrain Road, Lye Brae, Town Centre, Seafar Roundabout, Seafar Road, Braehead Roundabout, Town Centre, Jane's Brae, Greenfaulds Road, and back to Glasgow.

First Glasgow still retained the X3 route via M80, Muirhead, Moodiesburn, Westfield, Craiglinn Roundabout, Glasgow Road, Town Centre.
 

col197

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When First Glasgow transferred their garage at Cumbernauld (South Carbrain Road, near the railway station) to Stagecoach (the Ayr based sector, not the Dunfermline based sector), the former FG X2/X4/X5 were renumbered to X25/X25A/X28.

The X2/X4/X5 linked Condorrat and Greenfaulds with Abronhill, via either Seafar Road, the Town Centre, or one of the Carbrain Roads (North or South).

The present day Stagecoach operation has the X25/X25A running direct from the Glasgow Royal Infirmary to A8011 Glasgow Road at Greenfaulds High School straight along the M80, then to Abronhill via either the Town Centre (X25) or North Carbrain Road (X25A). The X28 exits the M80 at Mollinsburn and runs via Condorrat to A8011 Glasgow Road, then Seafar Roundabout, Greenfaulds Road, South Carbrain Road, Lye Brae, Town Centre, Seafar Roundabout, Seafar Road, Braehead Roundabout, Town Centre, Jane's Brae, Greenfaulds Road, and back to Glasgow.

First Glasgow still retained the X3 route via M80, Muirhead, Moodiesburn, Westfield, Craiglinn Roundabout, Glasgow Road, Town Centre.
They weren’t renumbered, they were originally competing routes.
 

adrock1976

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What's it called? It's called Cumbernauld
They weren’t renumbered, they were originally competing routes.

Where did the Stagecoach X25/X25A/X28 come from then?

The only Stagecoach routes in Cumbernauld I was aware of when First Glasgow had the garage at South Carbrain were the Dunfermline X24/X26/X27 that ran via Kincardine Bridge.
 
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col197

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Where did the Stagecoach X25/X25A/X28 came from then?

The only Stagecoach routes in Cumbernauld I was aware of when First Glasgow had the garage at South Carbrain were the Dunfermline X24/X26/X27 that ran via Kincardine Bridge.
Stagecoach Glasgow started with the x25 in the 90’s then added the x25A/ x28 before first pulled out of Cumbernauld depot IIRC.
 

overthewater

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Fife Scottish actually started the X25 along side the X15 back in the 90s. However does any know remember when it transferred to Glasgow? The Reason the X25 started in the first place was because Fife had to keep sending out duplicates for Cumbernauld passengers.

Does anyone Remember the X20 Abronhill - Glasgow, never lasted long.
 
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