Services which have next workings on different lines of route - do guards/conductors announce anything?

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70014IronDuke

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Looking at S&C and Wennington line services on RTT a few days ago, I noticed that in the evenings (possibly Sunday only) some services, after arrival at Leeds, continued unadvertised on other routes - Knottingly, I think. Similarly (though I think it has now ceased) one S&C service on Sundays used to continue unadvertised to Nottingham. (Yes, I know there is one which is advertised.)

Again, I think it's probably stopped with Covid, but one morning Mansfield - Nottingham service used to go forward to Norwich. (Again, there was another which was advertised as a through train.) Similarly, an afternoon Liverpool - Norwich used to split at Nottingham, with one unit then continuing to Mansfield or possibly Worksop.

And I expect there are other examples.

I presume TOCs don't want to advertise these as through workings for operational convenience - to use the opportunity to pull the unit out of service, or whatever - but my question is, if the unit is going to continue forward, do guards/conductors make an announcement to passengers to the effect that "passengers wishing to continue to xxxxx" may stay on board this train, which constitutes the zz.yy departure to xxxxx after we arrive" ?

Or do they stay silent and oblige the poor punters to gather their belongings and plonk themselves on the platform, only to reboard 15 minutes or whatever later when the following service is announced?
 
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John Luxton

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Some years ago I took a morning trip from Gunnislake to Plymouth just for the ride and on approaching Plymouth the guard announced that the train would form the next Plymouth - Penzance service and some passengers remained on board. Not sure if its still the case - but the timetable never showed the train doing anything more than than Plymouth - Gunnislake. After I detrained it headed off to PZ. Another unit arrived shortly afterwards which had come from the PZ direction and formed the next service to Gunnislake.
 

LowLevel

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Looking at S&C and Wennington line services on RTT a few days ago, I noticed that in the evenings (possibly Sunday only) some services, after arrival at Leeds, continued unadvertised on other routes - Knottingly, I think. Similarly (though I think it has now ceased) one S&C service on Sundays used to continue unadvertised to Nottingham. (Yes, I know there is one which is advertised.)

Again, I think it's probably stopped with Covid, but one morning Mansfield - Nottingham service used to go forward to Norwich. (Again, there was another which was advertised as a through train.) Similarly, an afternoon Liverpool - Norwich used to split at Nottingham, with one unit then continuing to Mansfield or possibly Worksop.

And I expect there are other examples.

I presume TOCs don't want to advertise these as through workings for operational convenience - to use the opportunity to pull the unit out of service, or whatever - but my question is, if the unit is going to continue forward, do guards/conductors make an announcement to passengers to the effect that "passengers wishing to continue to xxxxx" may stay on board this train, which constitutes the zz.yy departure to xxxxx after we arrive" ?

Or do they stay silent and oblige the poor punters to gather their belongings and plonk themselves on the platform, only to reboard 15 minutes or whatever later when the following service is announced?

It depends if they know or not. We aren't told what our units do after we get off them. As far as I'm concerned I just key out and walk away and it either does something else or is disposed and goes down the Sidings.

There's also a risk of plans changing and passengers thinking they're on the right train and it not being as no one knows they're there to tell them.

All in all if it's pretty cast iron I do it, if not I don't.
 

Pit_buzzer

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Before the present pattern of northerns Sheffield to Scarborough services I often heard the conductor on a Sheffield to Hull service announce that the trains next working was a Hull to Scarborough service and through passengers were welcome to stay on the train
 

swt_passenger

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I think on approach to Southampton on the odd few services from Brighton that go back via Eastleigh on board staff usually advise you to stay on the same train for Southampton Parkway and Eastleigh.
 

Bertie the bus

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I assume you are referring to 2H77 1911 Carlisle - Leeds. This service doesn't run unadvertised to Knottingley. The incoming unit forms 2A77 2225 Leeds - Knottingley. Incoming units form subsequent services tens of thousands of times every day so no, I don't expect the guard tells passengers the unit will form a service to Knottingley 31 minutes after it arrives at Leeds.
 

peteb

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Not sure if this is relevant but there are quite a lot of services which are advertised locally as going somewhere short of their final destination because faster more direct trains are available to that final destination. And I assume they don't want people to get on a train at, say, York, thinking it's a short trip to Leeds and then find out they are going on a leisurely tour via Harrogate?

I guess if a terminating train forms another service they might want it to go temporarily out of use so cleaners can do their job, particularly with covid in mind?
 

stuart100100

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Ormskirk to Preston services continue on to Blackpool South (in that direction only), last time I was on it a couple of weeks ago the guard made an announcement to tell anyone who was heading towards Blackpool South to stay on the train
 

Rhinojerry

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Ormskirk to Preston services continue on to Blackpool South (in that direction only), last time I was on it a couple of weeks ago the guard made an announcement to tell anyone who was heading towards Blackpool South to stay on the train
Yes,some Blackpool South to Preston services pre covid would then carry on to Colne.
 

unlevel42

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Caught a train from Low Moor to Huddersfield, got off at Huddersfield and went to find to find the train to Sheffield.
By the time I found a screen it was too late. The train I had been on closed its doors and set off- for Sheffield.
 

Mat17

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I suspect the problem is that a terminating train could in theory be used regularly to form a service to xyz, but then one day for stock/staffing reasons it could simply terminate and a different set could be sent out on the service from another platform instead. So I understand why guards don't announce these, especially if there is a staff change.
 

sd0733

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The last arrival into Manchester from West Wales continues on from Piccadilly as the 22:14 Chester to get the 175 back to base.
I do always announce it will continue on once we get closer incase anyone wants those stops.as its certainly not a booked connection but is almost always impossible to miss.

Theres also a Crewe to Shrewsbury morning service which then couples to and forms a Birmingham train. Loads use that as a through train. Strangely the one an hour later does exactly the same but is advertised as a through train
 
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bramling

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Looking at S&C and Wennington line services on RTT a few days ago, I noticed that in the evenings (possibly Sunday only) some services, after arrival at Leeds, continued unadvertised on other routes - Knottingly, I think. Similarly (though I think it has now ceased) one S&C service on Sundays used to continue unadvertised to Nottingham. (Yes, I know there is one which is advertised.)

Again, I think it's probably stopped with Covid, but one morning Mansfield - Nottingham service used to go forward to Norwich. (Again, there was another which was advertised as a through train.) Similarly, an afternoon Liverpool - Norwich used to split at Nottingham, with one unit then continuing to Mansfield or possibly Worksop.

And I expect there are other examples.

I presume TOCs don't want to advertise these as through workings for operational convenience - to use the opportunity to pull the unit out of service, or whatever - but my question is, if the unit is going to continue forward, do guards/conductors make an announcement to passengers to the effect that "passengers wishing to continue to xxxxx" may stay on board this train, which constitutes the zz.yy departure to xxxxx after we arrive" ?

Or do they stay silent and oblige the poor punters to gather their belongings and plonk themselves on the platform, only to reboard 15 minutes or whatever later when the following service is announced?

A couple of years ago there was a TfW service which did something like leave Birmingham as 2x158, and upon arrival at Shrewsbury the rear unit detached and formed a Shrewsbury - Aberystwyth service. Certainly the guard announced on approach to Shrewsbury that anyone wanting the Aber service should remain on board. I think there was a similar arrangement in reverse during the morning too, where again the conductor announced on approach to Shrewsbury that anyone for stations to Birmingham should remain on. In both cases a modest number of people did, no doubt in some cases regulars. Not sure if this still exists in the current timetable.

In a completely different setting, some Northern Line drivers when terminating at Kennington will announce that the train will now be a northbound one.
 

306024

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Ipswich to Lowestoft services sometimes form the next Lowestoft to Norwich service. Similarly a Norwich to Lowestoft service can form the next Lowestoft to Ipswich service. In my experience the conductor has always announced what is happening approaching Lowestoft.
 

lewisf

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Thameslink trains terminating at Sutton actually continue in the same direction round the loop and head back towards central London.
 
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Last summer I travelled from Derby to Ruskington, on three separate services (changing at Nottingham and Lincoln). Turned out to be one unit throughout, so I didn’t need to change at all. However, there was a lady at Nottingham who unloaded all her luggage (including at least one suitcase and very large bag), clambered out onto the platform, looked around and at the information screen in a confused way, and eventually clambered back onboard and restowed all her luggage. There is certainly benefit in advertising a through service if possible.
 

WelshBluebird

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Before the last major GWR timetable recast, there was a 22.04 service from Cardiff to Bristol that would then form the last service from Bristol to Bath at 23.20 or so. Usually they would make an announcement on approach into Bristol to say people could stay on board for Bath. Was quite handy to know as it basically meant an unadvertised through journey later than the regular one.
 
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Undiscovered

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In the before times, there was a train from Walsall that terminated a Birmingham New Street around 0900.
It then formed the 0930ish service to Shrewsbury, crewed by the same driver and guard.

Unit was open the whole time and no PNBs/breaks for either crew were scheduled. Just a really long station dwell.
 

Parallel

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I've been on an afternoon/early evening service before from Pwllheli a few years ago. When approaching Dovey Junction, the guard advised passengers for Aberystwyth should remain on the train, and stay on the train at Machynlleth as both he (and the train) were forming the next service, which was timetabled to run direct to Aberystwyth, not calling at Dovey Junction or Borth.
 

sw1ller

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The last arrival into Manchester from West Wales continues on from Piccadilly as the 22:14 Chester to get the 175 back to base.
I do always announce it will continue on once we get closer incase anyone wants those stops.as its certainly not a booked connection but is almost always impossible to miss.

Theres also a Crewe to Shrewsbury morning service which then couples to and forms a Birmingham train. Loads use that as a through train. Strangely the one an hour later does exactly the same but is advertised as a through train
I travel pass from Crewe to Manchester on this one many, many times as I’m the driver to take over at picc, I’ve never once heard an announcement that it will carry on.
 
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I used to travel from Norwich to Loughborough a few times in the evening. I would get what used to be the 18:56 from Norwich which was advertised to terminate at Nottingham but on the occasions I used this service it was the same unit that then also worked the 22:07(?) to Leicester (calling at Loughborough). Both times I used this service I had quite a lot of luggage and a bike so would have appreciated being able to remain on board.
 

sd0733

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I travel pass from Crewe to Manchester on this one many, many times as I’m the driver to take over at picc, I’ve never once heard an announcement that it will carry on.
Oh must just be me that does it then!
 

diffident

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I always thought that if a train was "fully terminating" - i.e. not going forward to anywhere else other than a depot or returning to where it came, the announcement would be "All Change, All Change". I assumed that if a train would go on to somewhere else, or become another service, there would be a different announcement?
 

Falcon1200

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Not sure if this is relevant but there are quite a lot of services which are advertised locally as going somewhere short of their final destination because faster more direct trains are available to that final destination. And I assume they don't want people to get on a train at, say, York, thinking it's a short trip to Leeds and then find out they are going on a leisurely tour via Harrogate?

Indeed, at York last week the Leeds via Harrogate services were advertised as going to Burley Park !
 

peteb

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I've been on an afternoon/early evening service before from Pwllheli a few years ago. When approaching Dovey Junction, the guard advised passengers for Aberystwyth should remain on the train, and stay on the train at Machynlleth as both he (and the train) were forming the next service, which was timetabled to run direct to Aberystwyth, not calling at Dovey Junction or Borth.
Similar thing applied this May when I travelled Aberystwyth to Barmouth, conductor said unit was later forming the Machynlleth to Pwehelli train before we got to Dovey Junction, no doubt to assist those who didn't fancy 1/2 hour marooned there, however some still got off, and rejoined later. I guess it's a nice spot to watch the birds in the estuary or even remove that mask for a while!
 

Pigeon

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In a completely different setting, some Northern Line drivers when terminating at Kennington will announce that the train will now be a northbound one.

Does that mean you can stay on board and go round the loop then? I've always assumed they'd kick you off and not bothered to check the assumption.

You can go round a similar loop with occasional Worcester services that go into New Street via Camp Hill and then carry on out the other end back to Worcester via University. Torrent hash c2c874417947f6a92d395551c42c4be326453b97 is a front end view from such.
 

JonathanH

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Ipswich to Lowestoft services sometimes form the next Lowestoft to Norwich service. Similarly a Norwich to Lowestoft service can form the next Lowestoft to Ipswich service. In my experience the conductor has always announced what is happening approaching Lowestoft.
That seems almost more common than not these days since the introduction of 755s and the need to cycle them back to Norwich (and sometimes a daytime visit to Crown Point).

It means a Wherry Lines rover is not a bad choice for a 755 hunt as the units cycle on and off the route.
 

bramling

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Does that mean you can stay on board and go round the loop then? I've always assumed they'd kick you off and not bothered to check the assumption.

You can go round a similar loop with occasional Worcester services that go into New Street via Camp Hill and then carry on out the other end back to Worcester via University. Torrent hash c2c874417947f6a92d395551c42c4be326453b97 is a front end view from such.

With regards to Kennington, sort of. Although the official policy is to make a terminating announcement, no physical check is made, therefore there’s the expectation that people will occasionally be carried round - and this expectation is correct as many people do.

The announcements I was referring to are a more individual initiative by a small number of drivers in an attempt to avoid people panicking if they’re still on board as the doors close.
 

Deafdoggie

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Back in the days of EMT, the first Crewe-Derby carried on to Nottingham. Regulars stayed put, but the guard used to announce before Derby to stay on for Nottingham, even though it always said Derby on the front.
 
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