Severance roll-out

[CAF397]

It’s unlikely any drivers will get it. If you don’t have a poor sickness record then you’ve got no chance.

Which is so frustrating. Those sicknotes that nearly every depot have will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[RPI]

Some of the Avanti drivers are holding out on their pensions to see what the RIRG comes up with....Though train crews are quite safe, the pax numbers have come down, and on rural route's, you could possibly have voluntary redundancies, if the service has reduced.

To be honest, if any of us oldies where offered a package, you would see a massive queue

The rural routes down here seem busier than pre covid!

 

[Horizon22]

Which is so frustrating. Those sicknotes that nearly every depot have will be laughing all the way to the bank.

Rather than that having to cover for them all the time? Sometimes best to cut your losses if you have some drivers who are unfortunately unproductive a lot of the time.

 

[Efini92]

Which is so frustrating. Those sicknotes that nearly every depot have will be laughing all the way to the bank.

The irony that most of them won’t apply for it…

 

[wobman]

The rural routes down here seem busier than pre covid!

The Welsh rural routes have been busier than ever, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative of some people saying the trains are all empty.

 

[wobman]

If you look around most TOCs are actively recruiting drivers. WMT are actively training new drivers and still advertising for qualified and trainee drivers. They are so short, plus with a lot of retirements over the next year, I think drivers are safe. Don’t know about guards though?

There's a real shortage of traincrew at many TOCs, I know a lot of traincrew that are near retirement age and desperately want to leave if any severance package is offered to them.

 

[the sniper]

I know a lot of traincrew that are near retirement age and desperately want to leave if any severance package is offered to them.

And once they (probably) find out they aren't getting it, having held off for it, you'll probably get a gaggle go all around the same time.

 

[Aictos]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

 

[Efini92]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

That happened in the 90’s, the railway still hasn’t recovered.

 

[Aictos]

That happened in the 90’s, the railway still hasn’t recovered.

Should recruit more of the younger generation then, not difficult!

 

[wobman]

Should recruit more of the younger generation then, not difficult!

The railway needs experienced traincrew to train the next generation, who else would be Instructors.

 

[74A]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

Wouldn't be allowed. It's age discrimination.

 

[Horizon22]

The Welsh rural routes have been busier than ever, but that doesn't fit in with the narrative of some people saying the trains are all empty.

I think Welsh rural and other routes in scenic UK (Cornwall / Devon & the coasts) have probably had above average demand this year due to domestic holidays. This probably has balanced out (or surpassed) the average Summer demand. It may be slightly more manageable next year, but that's an unknown.

However yes, train crew will probably not be likely recipients.

 

[dctraindriver]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

The govt wants people to work for longer as people are living longer. Hence the reality is people will retire later if they want. However I wouldn’t say there are many people older than 65 years of age at my depot, most choosing to leave at 60/62.

There’s a lot more younger people in the drivers and guards grade nowadays anyhow who are having a go at a decent career.

 

[dk1]

The railway needs experienced traincrew to train the next generation, who else would be Instructors.

There are loads of younger ones doing it now. Most DIs at my depot are in their 30s.

 

[Crazyb]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

To be fair, there are not that many drivers in their 60+ out there....Most of the Old boys at the London depots, like Euston and LNER have gone, the same at East Mid's at St Pancras...You may get the odd few dotted around, but rare. Most depots are youngsters in their mid 30's, early 40's...... Like I said before, if offered voluntary redundancy, most would go....I'm quite senior being 54, but being ex BR it's pointless staying beyond 60, that's our official retirement age, unlike newbies.

Years ago, the older boys did stay until 65, but some had no families, kids or hobbies and the railways were their life, something the guys on here will not understand. They enjoyed coming to work playing dominos and cards, which is something you don't see no more, as everyone has their heads stuck in a ipad!!!!

You show me a depot with a Top Table now.

 

[43066]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

I don’t think we should be making judgements about people continuing to do a job they enjoy beyond retirement age (and who knows what their circumstances might be). If younger people want to do the job they need to prove themselves. It’s not for established employees to move over to make room for anybody else

I rather expect senior traincrew hoping for voluntary severance are going to be disappointed given how much overtime we currently have going where I am!

The railway needs experienced traincrew to train the next generation, who else would be Instructors.

In fairness you can be very experienced and still be a hell of a lot younger than retirement age. Instructors should also be people who do it for the right reasons, not given to whoever volunteers for it because the TOC can’t get anyone else to come forward.

Sadly that isn’t always the case!

 

[Horizon22]

In fairness you can be very experienced and still be a hell of a lot younger than retirement age. Instructors should also be people who do it for the right reasons, not given to whoever volunteers for it because the TOC can’t get anyone else to come forward.

Sadly that isn’t always the case!

DIs are an critical and sometimes forgotten aspect of the railway and something of a bottleneck in driver recruitment and passing out. Agree that there are issues with some not volunteering for the right reasons, but the drivers who would make the best ones are also hesitant for other reasons - often having done it before and been burned one-way or enough or feeling the renumeration doesn't match the extra responsibility and a belief they are poorly supported.

Anyway, I have digressed somewhat. Most TOCs have shortages and rolling recruitment of train crew as it is, and only limited numbers can get through so it does seem unlikely and will be focussed more on managerial grades.

 

[LowLevel]

I don’t think we should be making judgements about people continuing to do a job they enjoy beyond retirement age (and who knows what their circumstances might be). If younger people want to do the job they need to prove themselves. It’s not for established employees to move over to make room for anybody else

I rather expect senior traincrew hoping for voluntary severance are going to be disappointed given how much overtime we currently have going where I am!




In fairness you can be very experienced and still be a hell of a lot younger than retirement age. Instructors should also be people who do it for the right reasons, not given to whoever volunteers for it because the TOC can’t get anyone else to come forward.

Sadly that isn’t always the case!

Start 'em young I'm months from 10 years service with my current employer which in any other industry would make me a veteran - naturally on the railway I'm still wet behind the ears and I've got decades till retirement!

 

[the sniper]

but the drivers who would make the best ones are also hesitant for other reasons - often having done it before and been burned one-way or enough or feeling the renumeration doesn't match the extra responsibility and a belief they are poorly supported.

This is very true. Two of the best DI I can imagine are no longer DIs.

Start 'em young I'm months from 10 years service with my current employer which in any other industry would make me a veteran - naturally on the railway I'm still wet behind the ears and I've got decades till retirement!

You'll always be a chicken sh*t to someone, until you're the senior man!

 

[43066]

Start 'em young I'm months from 10 years service with my current employer which in any other industry would make me a veteran - naturally on the railway I'm still wet behind the ears and I've got decades till retirement!

Ten years is good going, twice my service, so I’m not even wet behind the ears yet! It’s a strange industry in that respect.

You'll always be a chicken sh*t to someone, until you're the senior man!

Senior man at my last depot joined up in…. 1963 …. and was still going as of 2019. Can’t be many left of that vintage!

 

[Ken H]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

you would have to give a fair wedge to over 60's cos no state pension till 66. Anyone still with a mortgage or other debt will probably not go unless the payoff will cover their debt and a bit more.

But there is a lack of people to fill vacancies. So the railway is competing with other industries which may offer better terms.

 

[Horizon22]

But there is a lack of people to fill vacancies. So the railway is competing with other industries which may offer better terms.

Not so sure on that - okay terms might be scrutinised a bit more in a post-Covid world, but people from other industries can't believe how good things can be on the railway. This is partly why you have so many applications for roles such as drivers. I've met plenty of ex cabin-crew who find the guards role a breeze in comparison with a much better work-life balance and pay!

 

[Trainer2]

When is this scheme being offered to DB Cargo staff?

Local Network Rail gang tells me the managers are up in arms, they are not allowed to apply yet, they are in the ‘wrong’ department.

All aboard the Voluntary Severance train!

 

[Watershed]

When is this scheme being offered to DB Cargo staff?

Local Network Rail gang tells me the managers are up in arms, they are not allowed to apply yet, they are in the ‘wrong’ department.

All aboard the Voluntary Severance train!

DB Cargo are open access operators, as with all other FOCs. They aren't signatories to the Memorandum of Understanding and hence won't be offering this scheme.

 

[Trainer2]

The bearer of bad news!

I am deeply disappointed and will speak to the union man when he’s back of sick to find out what’s going on!

 

[LowLevel]

The bearer of bad news!

I am deeply disappointed and will speak to the union man when he’s back of sick to find out what’s going on!

Why would an independent freight haulage company issue severance related to the woes of the passenger railway? DB Cargo have had redundancy schemes in recent memory.

 

[172007]

Wouldn't be allowed. It's age discrimination.

Allowed under collective bargaining.

 

[Trainer2]

Hello low level,
I don’t wish to disagree but circumstances change and leaving now with a settlement would help!

 

[Wolfie]

Personally I think it's a great idea by this Govt, one of the best they've had yet as the staff who should be given it first are those past retirement age eg older then 65 regardless of their job role who are still in full time work on 8 hour shift. They've had a good career life so it's about time some of them step down and let the younger generation have a go at a decent career.


Once those aged 65 or over have been given it then they should look at those 60 or over and leave it there.


That's not ageism, it's just reality.

It is also almost certainly illegal.