Severance roll-out

[Deafdoggie]

Speaking with a member of catering staff today & they would be entitled to £32k if they put in for it & it was accepted. It really isn’t much at all considering they need to work for another 10 years. For that reason it’s not an option.

It is if you've got another job to go to. Or you've just gained some inheritance too. Or you've finished paying off your mortgage. There are scenarios where it's quite attractive

 

[dk1]

It is if you've got another job to go to. Or you've just gained some inheritance too. Or you've finished paying off your mortgage. There are scenarios where it's quite attractive

Oh yes I quite agree. It would be perfect for me as all those apply to me apart from I don’t want another job & plan to take early retirement within the next 3 years. Sadly it’s not being offered to me due to my current job. The person I was referring to however is not quite in that position yet.

It would be a very nice sum if they were entitled to the 3 weeks per year as originally mooted. Nearly 3 years pay for 47 years service would be a lovely golden handshake.

Wouldn’t it just. Really hope that person gets the chance.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would be a very nice sum if they were entitled to the 3 weeks per year as originally mooted. Nearly 3 years pay for 47 years service would be a lovely golden handshake.

My Dad took it from the TSB Bank years ago, and got a huge payoff because of his long service, by far enough to clear their mortgage (indeed, enough to have bought their house for cash).

 

[falcon]

Yes it is. For someone with your length of service you can see why it’s not open to train crew, especially if you still have your original seniority date.

The lenght of service is not relevant as it is capped at 72 wks and there are people who the offer is available to who earn more than train crew.

Which I do. The catering member I’m referring to has done 29 years & we have another with 47 under the belt.

Capped at 72 weeks so 47 years is not available

This VS scheme is not as good as the previous schemes offerd by some of the privatised TOC.

The east coast mainline companies offered 3 times statutory redundancy with no caps at all.

The scheme on offer now is capped and it shrinks with lenght of service.

 

[dk1]

The lenght of service is not relevant as it is capped at 72 wks and there are people who the offer is available to who earn more than train crew.


Capped at 72 weeks so 47 years is not available

This VS scheme is not as good as the previous schemes offerd by some of the privatised TOC.

The east coast mainline companies offered 3 times statutory redundancy with no caps at all.

The scheme on offer now is capped and it shrinks with lenght of service.

Load of rubbish then. Not surprised.

 

[Bald Rick]

Edit: tax-free up to £30K, so the £2K would be taxed, not a huge difference, though.

Subject to tax rules. There’s a difference between redundancy pay (where your job is being removed) and severance pay. This scheme is the latter. Anyone considering it needs to read the conditions carefully, and potentially seek advice.

Load of rubbish then. Not surprised.

It’s still very much better than just resigning or retiring. Will be very attractive to many.

 

[dk1]

It’s still very much better than just resigning or retiring. Will be very attractive to many.

Very hit & miss in my opinion.

 

[Bald Rick]

Very hit & miss in my opinion.

Well I can tell you that take up in some parts of the industry is more than expected.

 

[jayah]

This is effectively inevitable. One thing that appears to happen in some school staff grades is also that long service is actually penalised. For example someone with 3 years experience and someone with 15 years experience doing the same role may be paid the same, but the latter person will inevitably need to handle the more difficult cases and be responsible for giving more assistance and support to colleagues. So you essentially get more work as your skills develop, but no corresponding pay rises. If you accept a promotion you may achieve a very modest pay rise but will be given a disproportionate increase in responsibility. I know several people who've racked up years and years of experience as teaching assistants, network managers, librarians, receptionists and administrators in schools, and who the school rely on very heavily, but with very poor rewards.

Why is that inevitable?

I can honestly say in every job I have done, this is never universally true.

There are people have been around years who don't know what they are doing and do everything possible to avoid being proactive or taking ownership of anything, while people with a fraction of their service are far more capable.

Beyond 2-3 years, the service rarely counts and people have found their level.

But it is true there are people who are highly skilled who often don't get recognised unless they progress by promotion or get an outside offer.

 

[Starmill]

I can honestly say in every job I have done, this is never universally true.

Has every job you've ever done been a non-teaching school role? Because that's what I was commenting on.

The general point is not that such experience is universal at all. It's that there's a well recognised downside to structured pay bands.

 

[jayah]

Has every job you've ever done been a non-teaching school role? Because that's what I was commenting on.

The general point is not that such experience is universal at all. It's that there's a well recognised downside to structured pay bands.

There is nothing uniquely special about such roles that diminishes my point.

There is no reason why someone deserves special pay for sticking around 15yrs when someone else 3yrs in might be just as capable.

Reward talent, not duration of service.

 

[Starmill]

There is nothing uniquely special about such roles that diminishes my point.

There is no reason why someone deserves special pay for sticking around 15yrs when someone else 3yrs in might be just as capable.

Reward talent, not duration of service.

Did you actually read my post? In general it appears that you agree with me that an issue with the approach of structured pay bands is that, in the band that is right for individuals, the structure is too flat, disproportionately rewarding people in the early part of their role because it's partly based on time served, and their expertise gains relatively little reward beyond that. Although some people would probably correctly point out that you could restructure the pay bands to take a greater range of factors into account, which the NHS for example does a little bit better with a system of 'points', and you can give more scope for raises within each band.

Rewarding public sector careers aren't really that difficult to devise, although they are almost impossible to devise on a shoestring, which is exactly what happens in schools to the non-teaching but ultimately also non-optional grades.

 

[jayah]

Did you actually read my post? In general it appears that you agree with me that an issue with the approach of structured pay bands is that, in the band that is right for individuals, the structure is too flat, disproportionately rewarding people in the early part of their role because it's partly based on time served, and their expertise gains relatively little reward beyond that. Although some people would probably correctly point out that you could restructure the pay bands to take a greater range of factors into account, which the NHS for example does a little bit better with a system of 'points', and you can give more scope for raises within each band.

Rewarding public sector careers aren't really that difficult to devise, although they are almost impossible to devise on a shoestring, which is exactly what happens in schools to the non-teaching but ultimately also non-optional grades.

I don't really agree with seniority pay bandings at all.

After 12 months the link between performance and service is pretty weak and such structures work on the basis that up to some arbitrary point, perhaps 8 years, service is the important factor.

There is no reason why the most able person cannot be at the top of their role in 3yrs, while others with 20yrs service don't deserve to get halfway, something these seniority based schemes the public sector is so fond of, generally do not recognise.

 

[OliverReed]

I’ve done 18.5 years. For that I’d get just under a years salary. It would be enough to start a small business perhaps. I think because employers don’t understand what we actually do (thanks lazy media). That would be the best option.

 

[RJ]

My offer is just over my annual salary but I have no intention of taking it. Given my circumstances it's not even any kind of incentive vs staying in the role.

 

[Bogallan]

I’ve done over 40 years with the railways and I can remember as an 18 year old at Norwich Thorpe parcels office, Russell, who seemed ancient to me, (but I guess was about my age now) said to me, “Andy, I’ve no idea why you joined the railway - nothing like it was in my day when I started” (which was probably around the start of WW2).
Well, so the great circle of life continues, and I’ve found myself saying the same thing to new starters, as Russell did to me all those years ago.
I’ve enjoyed every minute of my time on the railway, there’s never a day I don’t look forward to going to work. I’m a Guard now on LNWR so am not eligible for the VSS, but in all honesty, even if I were, I doubt I would take it. But as they say, everyone to their own and I wish all well to those who seek it.

 

[jayah]

I’ve done over 40 years with the railways and I can remember as an 18 year old at Norwich Thorpe parcels office, Russell, who seemed ancient to me, (but I guess was about my age now) said to me, “Andy, I’ve no idea why you joined the railway - nothing like it was in my day when I started” (which was probably around the start of WW2).
Well, so the great circle of life continues, and I’ve found myself saying the same thing to new starters, as Russell did to me all those years ago.
I’ve enjoyed every minute of my time on the railway, there’s never a day I don’t look forward to going to work. I’m a Guard now on LNWR so am not eligible for the VSS, but in all honesty, even if I were, I doubt I would take it. But as they say, everyone to their own and I wish all well to those who seek it.

I was reading a book from someone with a long career in the Police. The gripes there are fairly similar, management ranks don't care, the job has gone downhill etc...

In his case, the story was already second hand and the actual conversation, almost identical to what you might hear today, had in fact taken place somewhere around the end of WW1.

 

[Philip]

If some TOCs have to cut back on station staff (ie. ticket office closures), is it usually the case that everyone in that field has to reapply for their job, regardless of whether they worked at a busy or quiet station, and then successful applicants are allocated to the offices which haven't been closed?

 

[Trainer2]

Network Rail maintenance lads can apply from January 5th 2022; an early Christmas present for the old boys.

 

[John1974]

With the current restrictions affecting passenger numbers again, do you think TOCs will consider trimming the service and then drivers?

 

[DorkingMain]

With the current restrictions affecting passenger numbers again, do you think TOCs will consider trimming the service and then drivers?

There's such a nationwide shortage of drivers and guards that they would never need to make them redundant, constant recruitment is needed at most TOCs to keep up with natural wastage. A lot of TOCs have deep shortages atm, as a result of recruitment freezes during COVID.

 

[guard1]

Too many swinging the lead hoping to be paid to go away on the railway

 

[wobman]

With the current restrictions affecting passenger numbers again, do you think TOCs will consider trimming the service and then drivers?

Most tocs are struggling for traincrew and traincrew are excluded from the severance package offer.
In the last 2 years staff have retired or left the business but haven't been replaced, covid is having a big effect on the railways in many ways.

 

[dk1]

With the current restrictions affecting passenger numbers again, do you think TOCs will consider trimming the service and then drivers?

The service may get reduced slightly on a temporary basis but that wouldn’t affect drivers or any traincrew for that matter.

 

[Bald Rick]

With the current restrictions affecting passenger numbers again, do you think TOCs will consider trimming the service and then drivers?

Unlikely to be changes because of current restrictions, however there are likely to be changes due to increased levels of absence. Some operators are really struggling for traincrew.

 

[Horizon22]

There's such a nationwide shortage of drivers and guards that they would never need to make them redundant, constant recruitment is needed at most TOCs to keep up with natural wastage. A lot of TOCs have deep shortages atm, as a result of recruitment freezes during COVID.

Partly recruitment freezes & partly the long backlog of trainees waiting to get practical handling and a DI (driver instructor) after all in-cab training was suspended for most of 2020. But yes the general gist is TOCs are going to be still playing catch up well into 2022.

 

[dk1]

Partly recruitment freezes & partly the long backlog of trainees waiting to get practical handling and a DI (driver instructor) after all in-cab training was suspended for most of 2020. But yes the general gist is TOCs are going to be still playing catch up well into 2022.

Greater Anglia being an exception who have done splendidly in passing out a record number of drivers during this last 18 months. We stopped in cab training during March 2020 & fully started again within 3 months in training ‘bubbles’. Even creating a ‘DIs Link’ with excellent cooperation from ASLEF to speed things up. A shame most TOCs didn’t take the same path that we did.

 

[wobman]

Greater Anglia being an exception who have done splendidly in passing out a record number of drivers during this last 18 months. We stopped in cab training during March 2020 & fully started again within 3 months in training ‘bubbles’. Even creating a ‘DIs Link’ with excellent cooperation from ASLEF to speed things up. A shame most TOCs didn’t take the same path that we did.

Most tocs don't do this and it's resulted in the backlog still existing, the trainplan couldn't be covered if tfw did this was what resources tod ASLEF

 

[dk1]

Most tocs don't do this and it's resulted in the backlog still existing, the trainplan couldn't be covered if tfw did this was what resources tod ASLEF

Wales seemed to just shut down.

 

[wobman]

Wales seemed to just shut down.

Nobody told the passengers about the shutting down or wearing masks.......