Severely Overcrowded Buses

[GrimsbyPacer]

Hi everyone.
Today in Grimsby all the buses were jammed packed with more passengers than was safe to carry. People had to stand upstairs on the double deckers, the luggage racks had many people in them, after leaving the Riverhead stop in the town centre (without being able to pick up many left behind) virtually no one could get on at many stops.
It was the same on all bus routes (except the empty 11), complete chaos and the 15min Saturday 3/4 service should of been a 10min frequency instead. It's bad enough on normal Saturdays.

What should drivers do in these situations?
Allow alot of excess passengers on the bus?
Or
Leave hundreds abandoned at the stop?

Also what are the cases of severe overcrowding in your area?
Thanks

 

[overthewater]

POOR management..... There should have know well in advance of that event, and make some effort...

 

[deltic]

Hi everyone.
Today in Grimsby all the buses were jammed packed with more passengers than was safe to carry. People had to stand upstairs on the double deckers, the luggage racks had many people in them, after leaving the Riverhead stop in the town centre (without being able to pick up many left behind) virtually no one could get on at many stops.
It was the same on all bus routes (except the empty 11), complete chaos and the 15min Saturday 3/4 service should of been a 10min frequency instead. It's bad enough on normal Saturdays.

What should drivers do in these situations?
Allow alot of excess passengers on the bus?
Or
Leave hundreds abandoned at the stop?

Also what are the cases of severe overcrowding in your area?
Thanks

Tube strikes in London tend to result in that level of overcrowding but it depends on the attitude of the bus driver - some will enforce the normal passenger carrying limit a few won't to avoid confrontation and to help people out

 

[Robertj21a]

The Night buses in London often have standing passengers upstairs.

 

[455driver]

Hi everyone.
Today in Grimsby all the buses were jammed packed with more passengers than was safe to carry. People had to stand upstairs on the double deckers, the luggage racks had many people in them, after leaving the Riverhead stop in the town centre (without being able to pick up many left behind) virtually no one could get on at many stops.
It was the same on all bus routes (except the empty 11), complete chaos and the 15min Saturday 3/4 service should of been a 10min frequency instead. It's bad enough on normal Saturdays.

What should drivers do in these situations?
Allow alot of excess passengers on the bus?
Or
Leave hundreds abandoned at the stop?

Also what are the cases of severe overcrowding in your area?
Thanks

They HAD to stand upstairs and in the luggage racks did they?
Or do you mean they CHOSE to stand upstairs and in the luggage racks?

It might seem a strange concept but humans do actually have the ability to think for themselves, okay some people chose not to think and behave like sheep but it doesnt change the fact that people are capable of independent thought.

As for what the drivers should do, its easy, you count them on and when you have reached capacity the bus is full, not much thinking to do about it, if the Ministry men turn up its the driver who will be 'having a chat' with them.

As for leaving people behind, that isnt the drivers problem!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

POOR management..... There should have know well in advance of that event, and make some effort...

And do what?
They have a certain number of crews and a certain number of buses and that is it, or are you one of those who thinks companies have hundreds of spare buses and drivers sitting around playing cards just in case they are needed, just like train companies are expected to have?

 

[quarella]

Does the fault actually lie with the organisors and the council as licensing authority for failing to ensure there was a robust transport plan in place?
Wouldn't be the first time a major event has taken place where local transport providers have not been included at any stage of the planning process.

 

[AB93]

POOR management..... There should have know well in advance of that event, and make some effort...

And do what?
They have a certain number of crews and a certain number of buses and that is it, or are you one of those who thinks companies have hundreds of spare buses and drivers sitting around playing cards just in case they are needed, just like train companies are expected to have?

Seems an unnecessarily scathing reply - they would have known that the main, national Armed Forces Day was being held today in the town, and that loadings would be much higher than usual, so it does not seem unreasonable to wonder about scheduling some extra resource for this day only.

Last year's event was in Guildford - Stagecoach ran the park and rides and they were absolutely heaving.

 

[90019]

What should drivers do in these situations?
Allow alot of excess passengers on the bus?
Or
Leave hundreds abandoned at the stop?

You leave people behind, because you're the one that will get in trouble if caught driving an overloaded bus.
The maximum capacity isn't advisory.

 

[Martin2012]

Back when I worked in the Brislington area, the X39 towards Bristol used to get seriously overcrowded around 3-4PM when the college students were all heading home.

There was at least one instance where I was physically unable to board the bus due to there being no room and on a good number of journeys I ended up having to stand right by the driver's cab and passengers who wanted to board at the following stops were unable to.

I no longer work in this area so don't make this journey anymore but if anyone is able to answer I'd be interested to find out whether the allocation of double deckers to the route has made a difference?


In addition, my local route, the X46 from Yate to Bristol mainly has double deckers allocated but every so often, a single decker gets used. There appear to be some times of day where a single decker is sufficient for the passenger numbers but there have been several instances where one has been used on one of the rush hour journeys back from Bristol.

A few weeks ago my dad was on a journey which departed Bristol around 1730 in the evening and which had a single decker allocated. Aparrantley passengers waiting to board at Cabot Circus ended up getting left behind at the stop after the bus drove past full up.

In addition, would I be right in thinking that the 319(now the 19) between Bath and Cribbs used to suffer from overcrowding on some journeys?

 

[Qwerty133]

You leave people behind, because you're the one that will get in trouble if caught driving an overloaded bus.
The maximum capacity isn't advisory.

But do you leave space for a wheelchair to get on at the next stop?

More seriously around here do seem to think the maximum permitted capacity is optional, while others seem to think standing is not allowed and some seem to think that there is room at a following stop where older people* want to board after leaving people behind at the stop outside a college.

*over 25ish

 

[overthewater]

Seems an unnecessarily scathing reply - they would have known that the main, national Armed Forces Day was being held today in the town, and that loadings would be much higher than usual, so it does not seem unreasonable to wonder about scheduling some extra resource for this day only.

Last year's event was in Guildford - Stagecoach ran the park and rides and they were absolutely heaving.

unnecessarily scathing? I would have used stronger words. That reply was rather patronising- what can you do. Your right you have to wonder why, no one looked at the event and thought maybe need some extra resources.

If Stagecoach can get 40 odd buses up to Scotland for the Forth Bridge, or Sort out stuff for the Open golf, then surly there could draft in drivers and buses from maybe Hull or Scunt. Bad planning is whats dragging down the bus industry.

 

[trainmania100]

For me in the Brighton and hove area, the first bus after 0900 is always the busiest. The elderlys free travel card begins to work and all bunch onto the first bus their card allows

 

[Busaholic]

London has so many buses, routes and even bus companies that it is impossible to give a definitive answer BUT I would say based on personal experience, and talking entirely about double deckers, which make up a majority of workings, that drivers will often take on more than the permitted number of passengers at termini and other important stops but, conversely, will often sail past stops where passengers are waiting to board even though there are clearly seats available upstairs. A variation on this is where they stop to let passengers off but do not allow boarders, presumably to aid timekeeping.

 

[matt_world2004]

London has so many buses, routes and even bus companies that it is impossible to give a definitive answer BUT I would say based on personal experience, and talking entirely about double deckers, which make up a majority of workings, that drivers will often take on more than the permitted number of passengers at termini and other important stops but, conversely, will often sail past stops where passengers are waiting to board even though there are clearly seats available upstairs. A variation on this is where they stop to let passengers off but do not allow boarders, presumably to aid timekeeping.

It is usually the case when they do this, is that they have picked up a lot of passengers at an earlier stop they let some passengers off but they are overcrowded still a bus can run late due to unexpected loadings and the lost mileage and delay attribution lies with TfL in those circumstances as it is TfLs responcibility to set the frequency of the route. However often the case is unexpectedly heavy loadings are to do with some disruption on the network, either on other bus routes, the tube or the bus itself. In which case the delay attribution is worked out accordingly.

 

[Antman]

Tube strikes in London tend to result in that level of overcrowding but it depends on the attitude of the bus driver - some will enforce the normal passenger carrying limit a few won't to avoid confrontation and to help people out

Indeed and I would put myself in the latter category.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They HAD to stand upstairs and in the luggage racks did they?
Or do you mean they CHOSE to stand upstairs and in the luggage racks?

It might seem a strange concept but humans do actually have the ability to think for themselves, okay some people chose not to think and behave like sheep but it doesnt change the fact that people are capable of independent thought.

As for what the drivers should do, its easy, you count them on and when you have reached capacity the bus is full, not much thinking to do about it, if the Ministry men turn up its the driver who will be 'having a chat' with them.

As for leaving people behind, that isnt the drivers problem!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


And do what?
They have a certain number of crews and a certain number of buses and that is it, or are you one of those who thinks companies have hundreds of spare buses and drivers sitting around playing cards just in case they are needed, just like train companies are expected to have?

And where do rail replacement buses come from at short notice? Saying that leaving people behind isn't the drivers problem isn't a particularly helpful attitude.

 

[455driver]

And where do rail replacement buses come from at short notice? Saying that leaving people behind isn't the drivers problem isn't a particularly helpful attitude.

Quite often they don't, I have seen people ringing around 5 or 6 firms trying to get 2 buses, end result was lots of taxis.

It might not be a helpful attitude but it is factually correct, only once did I overload my bus (during very bad snow) and when it was pointed out who would be in Court if it had gone wrong it never (intentionally) happened again.

 

[90019]

Indeed and I would put myself in the latter category.

Do you actually drive buses, though?

 

[neilmc]

You should move to my village. If the weekly bus is full (i.e. has the requisite 14 passengers) then any further intending passengers will have to wait for the next bus. Which is the following Tuesday. Fortunately I live at the far end of the route although once all the seats were taken up at the last village pick-up point.

I took a risk recently, I came from Manchester by train to Penrith and took a chance on getting the bus one-way back home (passengers who came in on the bus have priority going back), fortunately again there are usually one or two who do the reverse, come into Penrith and then go on to Carlisle and get home by other means so there's always been empty seats - so far.

Word on the bus hotline is that all this will change soon when a new minibus arrives - it will have a whole 16 seats!

Seriously, when I was crewing a long, long time ago full-standing loads were not uncommon (and you didn't wilfully let on extras) but that isn't something I've seen for quite a while. It must be difficult for OPO drivers to determine just when the loading limit is reached.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For that kind of bus service, it would make a lot of sense to allow advance reservations.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Antman]

Do you actually drive buses, though?

I used too.

 

[90019]

I'm not sure how recently you drove them, but you can't get away with things you used to be able to a few years ago, especially with buses covered in cameras.

Personally, I wouldn't drive a knowingly overloaded bus, because there's too much at stake for me to risk getting caught.

 

[LowLevel]

I learned my lesson about complaints/compliments in this way.

I was on a West Midlands bus that was the first one to turn up in ages - I think 3 didn't appear before one single decker did - and it was wedged. The driver did his best to get people on. It was a warm day and perhaps inevitably someone passed out. The driver stopped, kicked everyone off, stopped a following bus and arranged medical assistance and dealt with everything very calmly.

I sent an email in complaining that 3 buses on the bounce hadn't appeared but praising the driver for his handling of the situation.

I got an email back from the delightful folk at TWM as it was then saying they were aware of the incident, made no apology for 3 buses not turning up, but apologised for the crowding and stated they had viewed the bus CCTV and were starting disciplinary proceedings against the driver which may lead to formal action up to dismissal.

I was not amused.

 

[90019]

It's not unknown for a letter written to a company complimenting a driver on doing something nice to help someone to end up in disciplinary action because what they did went against company policy.

 

[pemma]

They HAD to stand upstairs and in the luggage racks did they?
Or do you mean they CHOSE to stand upstairs and in the luggage racks?

It might seem a strange concept but humans do actually have the ability to think for themselves, okay some people chose not to think and behave like sheep but it doesnt change the fact that people are capable of independent thought.

As for what the drivers should do, its easy, you count them on and when you have reached capacity the bus is full, not much thinking to do about it, if the Ministry men turn up its the driver who will be 'having a chat' with them.

As for leaving people behind, that isnt the drivers problem!

So all passengers don't think in your opinion?

What if a load of passengers went to look for seats upstairs to find there weren't any when the driver continued to let more and more passengers load on? By the time they found there were no seats there could have been no room to stand on the lower deck. While irregular passengers may not know it's illegal to stand on the upper deck or stairs.

Or if more and more people push themselves on people standing in sensible places might finish up being pushed in to the luggage rack.

How hard is it for the driver to shout out he can't depart if there are more than x standing on the lower deck or if passengers are standing on the stairs or upper deck? Many drivers do that on a daily basis.

 

[90019]

So all passengers don't think in your opinion?

To be fair, a lot of them quite clearly don't.