Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by bladesman123, 18 Jun 2014.

  1. bladesman123

    bladesman123 Member

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  3. MK Tom

    MK Tom Established Member

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    Is there anywhere online the detailed plans can be viewed?
     
  4. DimTim

    DimTim Member

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  5. 34D

    34D Established Member

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    And the text:


     
    Last edited by a moderator: 19 Jun 2014
  6. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

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    Just to save a few clicks, that doc only covers the application to change the use of land near Parkgate.
    I tried searching for the ref no but their search system didn't show me any results.
     
  7. DimTim

    DimTim Member

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    Correct - the Rothbiz article refers to this planning application for the sub station.

    The flood report gives details of where the track is to be lowered. Nothing further is available as yet.
    After Rotherham station recent refurbishment surprised article refers to new access ramps. Also lowering track at College Road bridge will likely affect track height in platforms due to its proximity.
    New platforms? I understood Sheffield end of existing platforms were to be lowered to tram height.
     
  8. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    Is the area where the line passes through in Rotherham one that would never be affected by the effects of the flooding that occurred in 2007 ?
     
  9. DimTim

    DimTim Member

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    Station is next to the canal with the river nearby. The deluge of 2007 was exceptional with Tesco car park 10/15 ft above normal river level under water however I seem to recall there has been other minor flooding on the line in the past.
    The line through to Parkgate is never far from the canal - weirs keep the water level under control. Flood control measures have been taken on the river but as you can see from the planning application the sub station will be built on stilts!

    Plans for a new school on the other side of the canal from Parkgate suggest it will be built at 1st floor level with very little on ground floor.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Line as closed in both November & December 2013. Not at the station but nearer to where new tram terminus will be situated. Other side of Rawmarsh Road near canal boat turning area
     
  10. Bayum

    Bayum Established Member

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    Any information on the rolling stock to be used for such services?
     
  11. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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  12. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

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    Short answer - no, it's not an area that would never be affected (or doing away with the double negatives - the area could still be affected).
    It uses the line through Rotherham Central which was affected by those and other floods. However, they've done a certain amount of additional flood protection work through the town which might mean that it would take a really exceptional amount of water to cause problems.
    Worth bearing in mind that the line through Central was built partly on the route of the canal, which was diverted to accommodate it.
     
  13. talltim

    talltim Established Member

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    Having spoken in the past to the SYPTE project managers for the Rotherham Central Station rebuilt and the Tram-Train project, I understood that the platforms were to be extended at a lower height, but I've never directly asked so I could having been making an assumption
     
  14. Haydn1971

    Haydn1971 Established Member

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    That is my understanding of the platform arrangements at Rotherham - I have directly asked as part of some work I was involved in for SYPTE
     
  15. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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    This article says there's been a further delay:

    http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/Rail-News/sheffield-to-rotherham-tram-train-delayed

     
  16. ianhr

    ianhr Member

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    I wonder if the money being squandered on this daft scheme would have paid for double tracking the Holmes Junction-Rotherham Central line and the Dore curve + new platform at Dore, all of which would bring wider benefits. Alternatively spend the money on the existing Supertram system and build a new line to a part of the city not served by rail transport and where people actually live.
     
  17. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    I suppose that "somewhere" had to be used for these trials and the existing area of the chosen site was one that already had a sizable tram service in its environs, where the local population were used to such a similar mode of transport.
     
    Last edited: 15 Nov 2014
  18. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Indeed. Much rather this than the preposterous earlier suggestion of using bi-mode tram-trains all the way to Huddersfield.
     
  19. starrymarkb

    starrymarkb Established Member

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    And if it's not a success then the trams can work happily on the Supertram network.

    DfT is paying for the Trial, if SYPTE want a new tram route they'd have to pay for it (which they don't have the money for at the moment). Either way they've got a few new trams for free out of this trial :)
     
  20. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    New launch date now announced:
    http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/rail-news/sheffield-tram-train-new-launch-date-set--january-2017
    This is a further slip of 8 months from the previous date of May 2016. Since the tram-train delivery schedule is unchanged, the vehicles will be used on the existing Supertram network before the NR line is ready:
    Supertram users are doing very nicely out of this project, having already had replacement tram tracks funded by the taxpayer!
     
  21. WatcherZero

    WatcherZero Established Member

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    To be fair the tracks needed renewing anyway and there wasn't any money set aside to do it, so might as well modify them while renewing.
     
  22. snowball

    snowball Established Member

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    NR press release:

    http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...-Tram-Train-operations-in-Sheffield-2268.aspx

    Map here:

    http://www.networkrailmediacentre.c...-location-of-proposed-Tinsley-chord-2225.aspx
     
    Last edited: 3 Feb 2015
  23. pro4600

    pro4600 Member

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    Has the location of the terminus at parkgate been identified yet?
     
  24. Xenophon PCDGS

    Xenophon PCDGS Veteran Member

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    So, January 2017 should see all ready to conduct the long-awaited tram/train trials to commence.....hopefully.
     
  25. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

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    Interesting - the map linked from post 21 shows the new chord further north from the Meadhowhall South tram stop than I'd been assuming. It would seem that Rotherham-bound tram-trains will now stop at Meadowhall South tram stop, then take the tram bridge over the Don and only then turn right under the M1. I'd assumed the junction would be broadly south of the tram stop, where the tram and train lines are close together.

    Time to get the camera out again this weekend.
     
  26. Haydn1971

    Haydn1971 Established Member

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    The alignment in post 21 is different to what I've seen before. There was a tender brief about a year ago to assess the station at Meadowhall South, at that time four platforms were been proposed - however the move of the chord now reduces costs by removing the need for two platforms and a new bridge across the River Don - that's a huge saving of perhaps £2-3M on the project.
     
  27. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    Interesting that the map appears to show that the Tinsley end of the shared alignment will consist of two segregated single lines, one for the tram-trains and the other for heavy rail. Does anyone know what length of track will actually be shared between light and heavy rail?

    Parallel tram and heavy rail single lines, separated only by the six-foot, are in daily use on Manchester Metrolink, so this part of the pilot scheme will not demonstrate anything new.
     
  28. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    It'll have to become a shared alignment where the Holmes Chord merges in and through Rotherham Central. I don't know whether the parallel single line extends that far or indeed exists at all - that doesn't look like the sort of plan to rely on for details of track layout.
     
  29. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

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    Well I went to the consultation on the new Tinsley Chord, which didn't add much to what was shown in the map linked above. They did say that putting the chord in had a few advantages over putting in a crossover at the Sheffield end of Meadowhall South/Tinsley tram stop: no need for new platforms, space for voltage change equipment on the chord if ever the rail line gets electrified at 25kV, and space on the chord to pause trams or turn them back (in either direction) in case of disruption on one or other network. By stopping them there, they wouldn't block either network.
    There's no need to build a bridge over the Don under either scheme - the earlier scheme would have used the rail bridge (to the right of my photo), while the current scheme uses the tram bridge.

    Anyway, attached is my photo showing roughly the area of the linked map, with scribblings to show the proposed chord etc.

    The far end of the chord (invisible in the photo) would be roughly where Tinsley East Junction was, which linked the GC's Rotherham-Sheffield line (the current freight line) to the GC line towards Barnsley, part of the trackbed of which is now occupied by the tram as it runs parallel to the M1 motorway viaduct.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: 7 Feb 2015
  30. edwin_m

    edwin_m Veteran Member

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    It also makes the signalling a good deal simpler. If there was just a crossover then whoever controlled it would need to ensure that the other end was free before operating it. This involves NR equipment detecting the presence of approachign Supertrams or vice versa. Assuming there is enough space to stop a tram-train at a signal on the double-track part of the chord, the two signalling systems can remain effectively independent with just an information link to advise the other system when a tram-train is approaching.
     
  31. eastwestdivide

    eastwestdivide Established Member

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    Yes, I think the Network Rail chap at the consultation was saying something about the signalling handover issue (he was talking with someone else), but I didn't catch the gist of it.
     

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