Sheffield/Rotherham Tram-Train update

[Skymonster]

No idea as far as Parkgate is concerned, but the schedule in RTT for this week requires three of the seven 399 units for the run between Rotherham and Cathederal. Experience from today suggests that another three could be allocated to regular runs between Meadowhall and Sheffield, while one was in the depot.

 

[Harpers Tate]

Can you see the line and station from parkgate retail park
Neil

You have to walk between the shop units to the service area behind. The last time I was there, the only open route to do this is access to a public footpath which takes a bridge over the Railway and adjacent canal. It's a hard-to-spot passage next to a bed shop. See if this works: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4...=203&h=100&yaw=231.01915&pitch=0&thumbfov=100
A second access is being opened further north/east for the tram station; it wasn't complete or accessible last time I was there.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Have we any inkling of an opening date yet?

Not seen anything official. They still haven't finished the facilities at Rotherham Central and Parkgate.

Inklings:
Someone with a camera on a bridge told me end of September, and someone else with a camera on a different bridge told me October, but take those with a pinch of salt.

 

[gtis]

You have to walk between the shop units to the service area behind. The last time I was there, the only open route to do this is access to a public footpath which takes a bridge over the Railway and adjacent canal. It's a hard-to-spot passage next to a bed shop. See if this works: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.4429792,-1.3462466,3a,75y,144.24h,97.61t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sMz7AHfGNoFdkccywMG1FcQ!2e0!6s//geo1.ggpht.com/cbk?panoid=Mz7AHfGNoFdkccywMG1FcQ&output=thumbnail&cb_client=maps_sv.tactile.gps&thumb=2&w=203&h=100&yaw=231.01915&pitch=0&thumbfov=100
A second access is being opened further north/east for the tram station; it wasn't complete or accessible last time I was there.

Thanks for the link will have a look
Neil

 

[Harpers Tate]

I read elsewhere that 15 October is the draft date for public opening.

 

[Roose]

If no direct access to Parkgate stop (through passage next to River Island?) you can follow the vehicle exit route at the 'far' end of the main car park and get to it that way.

Nowhere to park a car officially on that route and not sure how welcome or otherwise the occasional pedestrian might be.

 

[gtis]

If no direct access to Parkgate stop (through passage next to River Island?) you can follow the vehicle exit route at the 'far' end of the main car park and get to it that way.

Nowhere to park a car officially on that route and not sure how welcome or otherwise the occasional pedestrian might be.

I went to the passageway between card factory and bensons beds and stood on the bridge over the railway
Neil

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Nowhere to park a car officially on that route and not sure how welcome or otherwise the occasional pedestrian might be.

It's Rotherham, so if you go shirtless and bring a Staffie you'll be fine...

 

[samuel791]

Answering my own question, I was at Tinsley earlier today, and all the ones I saw paused on the chord, even if there was no other traffic preventing them from proceeding. I'd imagine they have to switch on/off various safety systems, and possibly "check in/check out" with Network Rail's signalling.
399203 and 399204 seen on Parkgate runs today.
View attachment 50341

Correct. It is generally a flick of the switch to change from Tram to Train mode, which disables a number of functions such as the warning bell, daytime running lights, track brake etc. Plus it then disables Supertram's radio system and enables the GSM-R unit for you to enter the headcode of the run. You also need to change the VIS code in order for the signallers to be able to distinguish between a train and a tram...

Keep an eye out from today as they will be running through until 23:00 on commissioning runs. Full ghost running commences from Sunday 16 September when a full timetable will be worked.

 

[Roose]

Is the 'ghost' running happening, as intended?

Meanwhile, SYPTE are looking for more money to complete this vastly over-budget project: DETAILS

A plan for the future of SY transport vaguely suggests tram(-train) expansion could be part of a possible solution: DETAILS

In Doncaster the Mayor is unenthusiastic about Donny cash being used for Supertram renewal: DETAILS

 

[pdeaves]

Is the 'ghost' running happening, as intended?

It looks like it; see http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/RMC/2018/09/24/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt (operator SJ). Trams every few minutes early till late.

Incidentally, when you posted the links, how did you get it to display a word rather than the full URL?

Edit: trying snowball's instruction for a neater link. Same Realtimetrains link as above.

 

[snowball]

Incidentally, when you posted the links, how did you get it to display a word rather than the full URL?

You say

[ url=whatever the address of the link is ] the title you want to appear [ /url ]

but without the spaces next to the brackets.

 

[_toommm_]

Any ideas whether fares will be integrated into the National Rail network I.e. could you get a single from Parkgate to Chesterfield?

 

[Harpers Tate]

Tram(/train) fares are separate. So exactly the same applies as for (say) Cathedral to Chesterfield. The fact they happen to share some rails is incidental.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Is the 'ghost' running happening, as intended?
...

Yes, for some time now. They stop on the new Tinsley chord to change systems, and also perform a dummy station stop at the new platforms at Rotherham Central.
3 an hour throughout the day an into the evening, and Saturday and Sunday too this weekend just gone. Plenty of photos in the corresponding thread over at RMWeb: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...-trains-for-sheffield-to-rotherham/?p=3308833

 

[Goldie]

In Doncaster the Mayor is unenthusiastic about Donny cash being used for Supertram renewal: DETAILS

This kind of narrow minded parochialism sells the whole of South Yorkshire short, and helps ensure that the region doesn't fulfill its potential. Who cares where the money comes from, so long as it is found? What good will it do Doncaster if the Supertram system doesn't get the repairs that it needs?

 

[Goldie]

While work's going on to get the tram train project up and running, SYPTE are consulting on the future of the tram system as a whole - and one of the options is total closure from 2024 onwards. SYPTE's / Sheffield City Region's consultation - where you can give your views on the future of the network and (hopefully!) support renewal and expansion - is here: https://www.surveygizmo.eu/s3/90074191/Mass-Transit-Questionnaire

 

[Iskra]

It seems like a no brainer. £230m required to keep it going for another 30 years. That's peanuts when you break it down year by year.

 

[Roose]

Thanks for the replies to my query and to Snowball who responded to the question from pdeaves about formatting text with a URL.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

While work's going on to get the tram train project up and running, SYPTE are consulting on the future of the tram system as a whole - and one of the options is total closure from 2024 onwards. SYPTE's / Sheffield City Region's consultation - where you can give your views on the future of the network and (hopefully!) support renewal and expansion - is here: https://www.surveygizmo.eu/s3/90074191/Mass-Transit-Questionnaire

Christ on a bike! Have we learned nothing from the past?

 

[Iskra]

Christ on a bike! Have we learned nothing from the past?

There is an article in today’s Star, where someone important basically says calm down, there is funding there and up for grabs, it just needs applying for.

I think the initial outcry was just a knee jerk reaction, but that’s the kind of news that grabs headlines and sells papers.

 

[skifans]

There is an article in today’s Star, where someone important basically says calm down, there is funding there and up for grabs, it just needs applying for.

I think the initial outcry was just a knee jerk reaction, but that’s the kind of news that grabs headlines and sells papers.

I wonder if it is was parley deliberate, showing all the negative aspects to the systems removal and having people out saying how important it is might help the case for funding. Or maybe I'm over thinking this?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

There is an article in today’s Star, where someone important basically says calm down, there is funding there and up for grabs, it just needs applying for.

I think the initial outcry was just a knee jerk reaction, but that’s the kind of news that grabs headlines and sells papers.

Hmmm... South Yorkshire applying for funding from a Tory government... can't see a problem there!

 

[edwin_m]

Part of the process of securing best value for money is to show that a particular course of action is better than any of the alternatives. So any case for investment in public transport will include consideration of at least one lower-cost alternative (usually some form of busway) to demonstrate that lower cost options have been considered and justify why they aren't the best solution.

 

[Iskra]

Hmmm... South Yorkshire applying for funding from a Tory government... can't see a problem there!

Gideon will sort it

Whatever the government, it wouldn't look good to have a tram system with no trams. Or a relatively recently reinstated tram system ripped up, probably at similar cost to what new trams would cost. Can't see anyone being daft enough to have that happen on their watch.

 

[Harpers Tate]

.... daft enough to have that happen on their watch .....

Or daft enough, even, to build a "Bus Rapid Transit" scheme which almost exactly parallels the Tram-Train pilot scheme in preference to an alternate BRT route that was elsewhere. But guess what........

 

[bluenoxid]

Electric Trolleybus is likely to be the comparator.

With the Tram-Train cost overrun, I can understand caution from London.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Electric Trolleybus is likely to be the comparator.

With the Tram-Train cost overrun, I can understand caution from London.

Whereas a cost over-run or year's delay in London is just par for the course.

 

[daodao]

Hmmm... South Yorkshire applying for funding from a Tory government... can't see a problem there!

The realistic best case scenario is retention of the system but no further development, as with the T&W Metro, with second-hand trams obtained from wealthier countries in mainland Europe such as Germany and Switzerland, in the way that Romania does. It would be foolish to have replaced the track so recently, and then to close the system, but that is happening in other poorer parts of the world such as the former USSR. Post Brexit, the UK will be economically impoverished, but far bigger savings would accrue from abandoning HS2, particularly the proposed ill thought out extensions on the East side of the Pennines and from Crewe to Manchester.

 

[geoffk]

The realistic best case scenario is retention of the system but no further development, as with the T&W Metro, with second-hand trams obtained from wealthier countries in mainland Europe such as Germany and Switzerland, in the way that Romania does. It would be foolish to have replaced the track so recently, and then to close the system, but that is happening in other poorer parts of the world such as the former USSR. Post Brexit, the UK will be economically impoverished, but far bigger savings would accrue from abandoning HS2, particularly the proposed ill thought out extensions on the East side of the Pennines and from Crewe to Manchester.

A grim scenario, with "post Brexit" Britain having to make do with cast-offs from Germany. We need to stop saying "post brexit" (as the BBC always does) and join the drive to stop it. There's still time and every outcome is possible.

With regard to Supertram, a new destination is needed on the west side of Sheffield as turning back trams at the Cathedral causes delay and congestion - the tram-trains will be doing this as well as the Herdings service. Or at least a better turn-back arrangement.