Sheffield to London: MML vs ECML

[Iskra]

I wonder if they'd curtail the Sheffield extension all together for the franchise?
So the mainline route would stop at Derby and Nottingham. Change at those stations for stations further north (thinking XC could pick up the Derby - Sheffield EMT passengers).

Weird perhaps and probably not popular but operationally, it seems to make sense.

XC don’t have the capacity to meet existing demand, nevermind forcing more people onto their inadequate 4 car trains.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

XC don’t have the capacity to meet existing demand, nevermind forcing more people onto their inadequate 4 car trains.

Actually that's one of the reasons I prefer ECML to MML when travelling from Sheffield to London. With LNER at least you know (for now) you'll get a proper 9 coach train so have a reasonable chance of a seat if boarding at Doncaster. Travelling with EMT from Sheffield, it's pot luck as to whether your train will have 4, 5, 7, 9 or 10 coaches and the smaller trains simply don't have enough capacity in standard class.

Add to that the fact that LNER occasionally have cheap Seat Sale deals on and EMT rarely do, plus the scenery on the ECML is nicer and for me it's ECML all the way.

 

[cactustwirly]

plus the scenery on the ECML is nicer and for me it's ECML all the way.

Seriously?
So you prefer flat countryside for 150 miles, over the Derbyshire Dales, rolling Northamptonshire hills and the Chilterns?

Personally the ECML is rather dull, and I find the MML a much more interesting route!

 

[Iskra]

Actually that's one of the reasons I prefer ECML to MML when travelling from Sheffield to London. With LNER at least you know (for now) you'll get a proper 9 coach train so have a reasonable chance of a seat if boarding at Doncaster. Travelling with EMT from Sheffield, it's pot luck as to whether your train will have 4, 5, 7, 9 or 10 coaches and the smaller trains simply don't have enough capacity in standard class.

Add to that the fact that LNER occasionally have cheap Seat Sale deals on and EMT rarely do, plus the scenery on the ECML is nicer and for me it's ECML all the way.

That can be avoided with a seat reservation, I’ve never had to stand on an EMT service.

LNER services still can be full too.

I’d say that’s a minority view on here. Personally I find both relatively dull but not without some merit- you can get some great sunrises/sets on the ECML. There is more of railway interest on the MML I find. When I get bored of one I switch to the other when not in a rush.

 

[edwin_m]

I wonder if they'd curtail the Sheffield extension all together for the franchise?
So the mainline route would stop at Derby and Nottingham. Change at those stations for stations further north (thinking XC could pick up the Derby - Sheffield EMT passengers).

Weird perhaps and probably not popular but operationally, it seems to make sense.

It doesn't really, at least before HS2. Leicester and Derby don't generate enough passengers to fill the trains without Chesterfield and Sheffield passengers. So if they finished at Derby they would need the same number of paths but fewer people, or Derby would get a poorer service. Some Sheffield passengers would transfer to the ECML route (which is already closer to capacity than the MML), may other Sheffield and Chesterfield passengers would be put off by having to change and drive instead.

 

[ChrisC]

On occasion I've found that specifying via Doncaster for a journey between Sheffield and London has given me a lower advance fare. Usually for departures from Sheffield between 17.00 and 18.00 weekdays.
The saving was not massive but worthwhile with only a slightly longer journey time.

I used to find the same from Nottingham if I specified via Grantham. At some peak times and generally at weekends and bank holidays standard class Advance tickets form Nottingham to Kings Cross were cheaper than direct on the MML.

I haven’t looked more recently as I now tend to travel to/from London midweek around lunch time when 1st Class Advance Tickets are usually at a very reasonable price from EMT.
I must admit I would rather pay a little bit extra and use EMT because I’ve experienced long waits at Grantham due to delays. On the return journey I always wished that I had used the MML when I have to alight at Grantham to change for the Nottingham train. I think that may be a thing with HS2. Will Nottingham and Derby passengers really want to change trains at Toton just to save, if anything, a few minutes?

 

[matacaster]

It is a real shame Midland Mainline didn’t get the acceptance on 9 car 222s on an hourly St Pancras - Leeds.

Yes, it would have taken longer but at the time they had an excellent product and the 222s aren’t at all bad.

The choice would also likely have allowed a reasonable level of competition and fare differences. I would have had no issues using them.

I agree!

 

[yorksrob]

Having just enjoyed another beautifully comfortable journey on the EMT HST, there's really no comparison.

What I'll do when these are gone, I don't know.

 

[cactustwirly]

Having just enjoyed another beautifully comfortable journey on the EMT HST, there's really no comparison.

What I'll do when these are gone, I don't know.

Although I will say that EMTs first class seats aren't particularly comfortable on their HSTs!

 

[Qwerty133]

It doesn't really, at least before HS2. Leicester and Derby don't generate enough passengers to fill the trains without Chesterfield and Sheffield passengers. So if they finished at Derby they would need the same number of paths but fewer people, or Derby would get a poorer service. Some Sheffield passengers would transfer to the ECML route (which is already closer to capacity than the MML), may other Sheffield and Chesterfield passengers would be put off by having to change and drive instead.

Sheffield to Chesterfield needs more capacity not less if anything. There's also significant passenger volumes between Leicester and Loughborough and Sheffield which could transfer to national express or car if direct trains ended.
Even post HS2 the only change to MML services I foresee is the merger of the Ivanhoe line stops into a London service.

 

[yorksrob]

Although I will say that EMTs first class seats aren't particularly comfortable on their HSTs!

At the risk of getting into another seat discussion, I find those far and away the most comfortable seats on the National network today.

 

[whhistle]

XC don’t have the capacity to meet existing demand, nevermind forcing more people onto their inadequate 4 car trains.

At the moment.
If the former happens, it'll release the Meridians, of which XC would probably be all over easing that capacity.
But yah, I understand

 

[Iskra]

At the risk of getting into another seat discussion, I find those far and away the most comfortable seats on the National network today.

Agreed. It’s like having your own personal armchair.

 

[SteveP29]

Your LNER service could have come all the way from Edinburgh with the hot food running out well before Doncaster.

Every time I travel from Edinburgh an announcement comes over the PA just before Morpeth that the buffet car is closing for restocking at Newcastle

At the risk of getting into another seat discussion, I find those far and away the most comfortable seats on the National network today.

My heart sinks when I see the EMT set on loan to LNER pull in (not that it happens often, thankfully)

 

[WildNorthlands]

I often use Grand Central to travel to London via Doncaster - they go non-stop from Donnie to KX so the journey times are comparable, they have some cheap fares & they carry bikes unreserved. The trains have had a makeover recently as well. I worked out the connections from Sheffield and they're in this Google Doc