• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Short faring at Manchester

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
6
Hi guys, I know I will not receive or deserve any sympathy on here as I did something very stupid which I now regret so much.

I went to Manchester via walkden to Salford crescent and transferred from there to Piccadilly on Saturday 6th of February. When I bought my ticket I said I got on at oxford road. After buying the ticket I was stopped by two people who asked for my details, which I gave.

As someone who doesn't use trains that much I didn't realise the severity of this, and now I am very worried about the outcome. I have 100% learnt my lesson already due to the worry of receiving criminal record and or a 1000pound fine.

What can I expect will happen now? I wont try and lie to them as I only want to tell the truth and let them know how truly sorry and embarrassed I am that this has happened.

I will keep everyone updated on the matter, and hopefully you guys can give me some advice.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,445
Location
Redcar
You will need to await the reply from the TOC but it seems quite likely they may opt to prosecute you under either the Regulation of Railways Act Section 5 or Railway Byelaw 18.

The next likely step will be that they will write to you asking for your version of events. It is up to you how you respond but it would be wise to tell the truth at this stage as lying is likely to make the situation worse. You can also consider replying stating that you're very sorry for your mistake, that you will never do so again, that you are willing to pay the fare outstanding and any administration costs they've inccured.

In our experience replying along the lines of the above may sometimes (but not always) enable you to avoid court and a potential criminal record.

If the TOC decide to prosecute you then you have a few options:

1) Defend your case in court by pleading not guilty. You'll need to be able to defeat the evidence that the prosecution will bring against you. Further if you're found guilty you'll not only face a fine and potentially a criminal record but also the other sides costs (you would also lose the advantage in sentencing of an early guilty plea potentially reducing the fine).

2) Plead guilty and accept a fine and potential criminal record.

3) Write directly to the TOC apologising for your actions and offering to pay the fare outstanding and whatever costs they've incurred so far. They may opt to accept a payment from you directly and avoid court or they may wish to proceed to court.

Finally, and especially if they do take you to court, you should strongly consider seeking professional legal advice even if it's only a 30 minute free consultation. Whilst specialists in railway law are available they are not common and charge a great deal for their services. However, a local firm dealing in criminal law defence should be able to provide adequate assistance.

You may wish to consult the Legal section of our Ticketing Guide for more information and with particular reference to this section and this section.
 
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
6
Thanks Ainsworth for the advice. This is the first time and certainly last time this will ever happen and I don't want to lie, I will just be truthful as I know I was stupid.

I hope an out of court settlement will be enough, I feel sick every day worrying about this.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,606
Location
Scotland
If the TOC decide to prosecute you then you have a few options:

1) Defend your case in court by pleading not guilty. You'll need to be able to defeat the evidence that the prosecution will bring against you. Further if you're found guilty you'll not only face a fine and potentially a criminal record but also the other sides costs (you would also lose the advantage in sentencing of an early guilty plea potentially reducing the fine).
If you already told the inspectors what you have told us here then I'd strongly advise against trying to defend the case as your statement provides enough evidence to ensure that you will, almost certainly, be found guilty.
2) Plead guilty and accept a fine and potential criminal record.
Consider this option, since an early plea results in a lower fine. It won't however, stop you getting a criminal record if they choose to prosecute you using the Regulation of Railways Act.
3) Write directly to the TOC apologising for your actions and offering to pay the fare outstanding and whatever costs they've incurred so far. They may opt to accept a payment from you directly and avoid court or they may wish to proceed to court.
This is your best option - even if the TOC initially decides to prosecute, it is possible to negotiate a settlement right up to the time the case is called. Be persistent without being pushy and you may well be able to achieve an out of court settlement.
Finally, and especially if they do take you to court, you should strongly consider seeking professional legal advice even if it's only a 30 minute free consultation. Whilst specialists in railway law are available they are not common and charge a great deal for their services. However, a local firm dealing in criminal law defence should be able to provide adequate assistance.
Agreed. It's only worth engaging a specialist law firm if you intend to plead not guilty. If you admit your guilt but are trying to reduce the sanction then any solicitor with criminal law experience should be able to achieve a desirable outcome.
 
Last edited:
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
6
If you already told the inspectors what you have told us here then I'd strongly advise against trying to defend the case as your statement provides enough evidence to ensure that you will, almost certainly, be found guilty.
Consider this option, since an early plea results in a lower fine. It won't however, stop you getting a criminal record if they choose to prosecute you using the Regulation of Railways Act.
This is your best option - even if the TOC initially decides to prosecute, it is possible to negotiate a settlement right up to the time the case is called. Be persistent without being pushy and you may well be able to achieve an out of court settlement.Agreed. It's only worth engaging a specialist law firm if you intend to plead not guilty. If you admit your guilt but are trying to reduce the sanction then any solicitor with criminal law experience should be able to achieve a desirable outcome.


Ive seen other people post on here that have received an 80 pound fee, I hoping this is what I get, is this possible?
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,445
Location
Redcar
Ive seen other people post on here that have received an 80 pound fee, I hoping this is what I get, is this possible?

It is possible as that does appear to be Northern's preferred method of dealing with this but it is by no means certain.

If they wish to they can prosecute and would almost certainly be successful if it got to court.
 
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
6
It is possible as that does appear to be Northern's preferred method of dealing with this but it is by no means certain.

If they wish to they can prosecute and would almost certainly be successful if it got to court.

I really hope they see how sorry I am, and considering this is the first/only time this has happened hopefully the 80 quid fine will suffice. I cant get rid of these nervous butterflies in my stomach, I hope they send me a letter soon.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,606
Location
Scotland
I really hope they see how sorry I am, and considering this is the first/only time this has happened hopefully the 80 quid fine will suffice.
I don't want to increase your stress, but you should bear in mind that the majority of cases they come across will be first time offenders - there's nothing unique about your situation in that regard.

That said, Northern appear to take the attitude that settling out of court is as (if not more) effective for dealing with first time offenders than prosecution. So I'm quietly confident that you will be offered an £80 fixed penalty as an alternative to being taken to court.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,589
I really hope they see how sorry I am, and considering this is the first/only time this has happened hopefully the 80 quid fine will suffice. I cant get rid of these nervous butterflies in my stomach, I hope they send me a letter soon.
You should also bear in mind that Northern will probably take the view that every first time offender is just someone who hasn't been caught before. Many of them will actually be repeat offenders.
 

exile

Established Member
Joined
16 Jul 2011
Messages
1,336
You should also bear in mind that Northern will probably take the view that every first time offender is just someone who hasn't been caught before. Many of them will actually be repeat offenders.

If they do take this view they're flying in the face of the principles of justice. Any number of offences one may have committed, but have not been prosecuted for, are irrelevant to the case being considered.
 

455driver

Veteran Member
Joined
10 May 2010
Messages
11,332
Ive seen other people post on here that have received an 80 pound fee, I hoping this is what I get, is this possible?

That is Northerns usual way of dealing with a first offence where there is no suspicion of regular fraud but is in no way guaranteed.

Simply wait for the letter which will normally give you a chance put your side across, if they are happy that the RPIs report is complete then they might go straight into further action which could be the offer of an £80 settlement (plus fare owed) or anything else they decide is appropriate.

Its simply awaiting game now until the letter arrives, try not to dwell on it as that wont change anything.
 

Haywain

Veteran Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
14,589
If they do take this view they're flying in the face of the principles of justice. Any number of offences one may have committed, but have not been prosecuted for, are irrelevant to the case being considered.
I don't believe that being cynical is illegal. And I would find it difficult to believe that a prosecutions office would not read all these "first time offence" claims without some degree of cynicism. How they treat each case is what matters for the principles of justice, not what they think of each case.
 

andy90870

Member
Joined
19 Feb 2014
Messages
16
I went to Manchester via walkden to Salford crescent and transferred from there to Piccadilly on Saturday 6th of February. When I bought my ticket I said I got on at oxford road. After buying the ticket I was stopped by two people who asked for my details, which I gave.

I want you to consider something for me please, you boarded the train at Walkden which has a part time booking office and a TVM. You then alighted at Salford crescent to change to man pic. Salford crescent also has a fully staffed booking office and a TVM as well. What's your excuse for not buying between changes? Prosecution WILL ask you why.
 
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
6
I want you to consider something for me please, you boarded the train at Walkden which has a part time booking office and a TVM. You then alighted at Salford crescent to change to man pic. Salford crescent also has a fully staffed booking office and a TVM as well. What's your excuse for not buying between changes? Prosecution WILL ask you why.

I just did what I do whenever I get a train (I rarely use them), and pay for a ticket when im at the final destination. Being truly honest I didn't know the severity of this and I will never do it again. I will be paying as soon as its possible, and I will warn others to do the same as it really is very serious.
 
Joined
24 Feb 2016
Messages
6
I was fined £80 plus £2.30 for the outstanding fare. My advice here is ALWAYS pay before getting on a train. Also if its your first time do not panic as much I have for the past 2 months.
 

krus_aragon

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2009
Messages
6,038
Location
North Wales
I was fined £80 plus £2.30 for the outstanding fare. My advice here is ALWAYS pay before getting on a train. Also if its your first time do not panic as much I have for the past 2 months.

I know it doesn't feel like it, but technically it wasn't a fine, as only courts are able to issue a fine. Rather, the £82.30 is how much Northern wanted to be paid to decide not to go to court (and cover their costs).

Regardless, thank you for coming back to tell us the result, and I hope you're largely happy with the outcome.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top