Short sighted Welsh closures.

[Gwenllian2001]

Apart from Aberdare and other lines that have since reopened to passengers, there were some others that, with a little imagination, could be valuable if in service today. One that immediately springs to mind is the 'Big Hill' from Taffs Well to Caerphilly. Here was a ready made outer suburban circular route. It would run via the City Line and and provide a service to Nantgarw and the heavily populated western part of Caerphilly known as Watford Park and the wide open spaces of the former Penrhos Yard would have been the ideal location for a 'Park & Ride' station. Clockwise and anti clockwise services would even out the demand for both halves of the circle and bring many more journey opportunities into play.

Any other suggestions?

Meic

 

[cle]

Carmarthen to Aberystwyth - and then Afon Wen to Bangor via Caenarvon.

Would provide a north-south route and plenty of passenger and freight options. A triangular junction at Aber and Dovey) would mean freight could go straight through to the North Wales mainline.

Caernarvon itself would generate decent traffic, as would accessing Aber and Barmouth from the North.

 

[anthony263]

Apart from Aberdare and other lines that have since reopened to passengers, there were some others that, with a little imagination, could be valuable if in service today. One that immediately springs to mind is the 'Big Hill' from Taffs Well to Caerphilly. Here was a ready made outer suburban circular route. It would run via the City Line and and provide a service to Nantgarw and the heavily populated western part of Caerphilly known as Watford Park and the wide open spaces of the former Penrhos Yard would have been the ideal location for a 'Park & Ride' station. Clockwise and anti clockwise services would even out the demand for both halves of the circle and bring many more journey opportunities into play.

Any other suggestions?

Meic

I certainly agree about the Big Hill line from Taffs wells to Caerphilly.

Other lines are from Merthyr Tydfil - Brecon (possibly further north as well) and the line from Aberdare to Neath both of which would be ideal if they are ever re-opened.

 

[rf_ioliver]

I think we covered most of these in another thread...

The most obvious that comes to mind is Carmarthen-Aberystwyth, then all of the now closed valley routes, plus the cross-valley routes that would have helped drastically, eg: Pontypridd-Caerphilly-Newport.

From my point of view the Llantrisant and Taff Vale is the one I missed

t.

Ian

 

[anthony263]

Taff vale I must admit I forgot about that 1 but yes I do agree with what you are saying

 

[Gareth Marston]

Dee Marsh Junction - Chester Northgate (Passenger)
had enough traffic to be profitable according to the Beeching report but was declared "duplicate" OK not 100% in Wales but most of link was.

Southern end of Central Wales line Victoria- Pontarddulais is probably the worst example in Wales in terms of the population it would serve know includes largest settlement in Wales without rail station Gorseinion (pop 17,000).

Sirhowy Valley - Blackwood and Tredegar noticeable valley towns with no rail link.

Newport - Abersychan line through Pontypool (ran parallel to mainline) right through Newtown of Cmwbran and better sited to serve population of Torfaen county than Pontypool and New Inn and Cwmbran stations.

 

[anthony263]

Dee Marsh Junction - Chester Northgate (Passenger)
had enough traffic to be profitable according to the Beeching report but was declared "duplicate" OK not 100% in Wales but most of link was.

Southern end of Central Wales line Victoria- Pontarddulais is probably the worst example in Wales in terms of the population it would serve know includes largest settlement in Wales without rail station Gorseinion (pop 17,000).

Sirhowy Valley - Blackwood and Tredegar noticeable valley towns with no rail link.

Newport - Abersychan line through Pontypool (ran parallel to mainline) right through Newtown of Cmwbran and better sited to serve population of Torfaen county than Pontypool and New Inn and Cwmbran stations.

I wouldnt mind seing the link between Grovesend & Gowerton re-built or even if the full route is re-opened as a light rail service

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I think we covered most of these in another thread...

Quite possibly before I joined the forum. However, I was not thinking of traditional services but missed opportunities of new or combined operations. When the interval service, on the Valley Lines, was introduced a chance was missed to, in modern parlance, think outside the box. I have already cited the 'Big Hill', which never had a regular passenger service.

Hourly services ran from Barry to Treherbert and then turned back. It would have made far more sense to continue through the Rhondda Tunnel and thus serve the communities of Blaengwynfi/Abergwynfi in the upper Afan Valley, on to Cymmer, thence to Caerau, Maesteg, Bridgend and back to Barry via the Vale of Glamorgan line. This would have been a lot cheaper than maintaining seperate services on Rh&SB; Bridgend - Abergwynfi and Vale of Glamorgan. Examination of running times shows that it would have been perfectly possible to maintain a clockface service whilst giving a much better service to some important places that didn't figure in the interval service.
Naturally, the service would operate as clockwise and anti clockwise. It has since been seen as advantageous to reopen the V of G to passengers as well as the Llynfi Valley line as far as Maesteg. If such a scheme had been adopted, the upper part of the Rh&SB might still be with us and the villages of the Afan Valley could be thriving as a desirable place from which to travel to work.

Meic

 

[tbtc]

I think we covered most of these in another thread...

We did, and I still think that Holyhead - Aberystwyth - Cardiff service wouldn't be any faster than a Holyhead - England - Cardiff service, given the slower alignment etc.

A lot of new lines needed, and not a lot of population in between.

Additional capacity through Queen Street in Cardiff would be my vote, though there's not a lot of space.

 

[The Planner]

The Crumlin and Walnut Tree viaducts, just for their sheer architectural brilliance, regardless of any purpose they would have now.

 

[martinsh]

I have already cited the 'Big Hill', which never had a regular passenger service.

I think it must have done in the dim distant past as it was the original Rhymney route into Cardiff. The route via Heath not opening until some years later.

Hourly services ran from Barry to Treherbert and then turned back. It would have made far more sense to continue through the Rhondda Tunnel and thus serve the communities of Blaengwynfi/Abergwynfi in the upper Afan Valley, on to Cymmer, thence to Caerau, Maesteg, Bridgend and back to Barry via the Vale of Glamorgan line

I think the Rhondda tunnel was in pretty poor shape which is why the route closed in the first place

 

[Gwenllian2001]

I think it must have done in the dim distant past as it was the original Rhymney route into Cardiff. The route via Heath not opening until some years later.


I think the Rhondda tunnel was in pretty poor shape which is why the route closed in the first place

The Big Hill could have carried passengers between 1858 and 1871, when the new route was opened but quite where they could have alighted is, to me at any rate, a puzzle.

The Rhondda Tunnel was in need of remedial work but this could have been done. I still have the Civil Engineer's report somewhere. From memory, the work would have cost between Thirty and Thirty Five Thousand Pounds, which was a pretty cheap solution. Unfortunately, the powers that were decided that they didn't want the line anymore and promptly closed the tunnel, citing its 'dangerous' condition. Remember that all this was happening against the background of the received wisdom of Government and Press that railways were 'old hat' and could be discarded with little care for the future.

Meic

 

[ValleyLines142]

We did, and I still think that Holyhead - Aberystwyth - Cardiff service wouldn't be any faster than a Holyhead - England - Cardiff service, given the slower alignment etc.

A lot of new lines needed, and not a lot of population in between.

Additional capacity through Queen Street in Cardiff would be my vote, though there's not a lot of space.

There is a fourth platform, opposite to platform 1, which could be used in the future. And there could also be the possibly of building a bay platform for the Bubble Car on the Bay Line and then using platform 3 for more services. If not, the Bay Line could still use platform 3, but would there be enough time for another service to use platform 3, knowing the the Bay Line is every twelve minutes??

 

[rf_ioliver]

We did, and I still think that Holyhead - Aberystwyth - Cardiff service wouldn't be any faster than a Holyhead - England - Cardiff service, given the slower alignment etc.

A lot of new lines needed, and not a lot of population in between.

Additional capacity through Queen Street in Cardiff would be my vote, though there's not a lot of space.

Agreed, going via Aberystwyth isn't a fast(er) way of getting from north to south but for improving a) the links from the south to the west/central and b) the overall connectiveness of the rail network, I personally think that the Camarthen-Lampeter-Aberystwyth is a "no-brainer" .. Wales's Woodhead?

Queen Street in a another reply.

t.

Ian
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a fourth platform, opposite to platform 1, which could be used in the future. And there could also be the possibly of building a bay platform for the Bubble Car on the Bay Line and then using platform 3 for more services. If not, the Bay Line could still use platform 3, but would there be enough time for another service to use platform 3, knowing the the Bay Line is every twelve minutes??

I always wondered why the disused platform was never reopened. Always struck me as similar to Pontypridd where a new platform was built but the bays and existing opposite face were never reused.

OK, I know there were issues with the track layout and getting trains through by minimising crossings and interference with freight...but still...

t.

Ian

 

[Gareth Marston]

There is a fourth platform, opposite to platform 1, which could be used in the future. And there could also be the possibly of building a bay platform for the Bubble Car on the Bay Line and then using platform 3 for more services. If not, the Bay Line could still use platform 3, but would there be enough time for another service to use platform 3, knowing the the Bay Line is every twelve minutes??

NR are actually going to do this. Reopen disused platform on City side of station and create Bay on prison side for Cardiff Bay shuttle. Quadrupling the Newport Rd bridge has been rejected to due cost/disruption idea is to improve the flow of passengers at station esp at peak times. The footfall is over 2 million nearly all using the single island platform having 4 platform for valley lines services will ease congestion.

 

[tbtc]

NR are actually going to do this. Reopen disused platform on City side of station and create Bay on prison side for Cardiff Bay shuttle. Quadrupling the Newport Rd bridge has been rejected to due cost/disruption idea is to improve the flow of passengers at station esp at peak times. The footfall is over 2 million nearly all using the single island platform having 4 platform for valley lines services will ease congestion.

Good news, didn't realise, thanks

 

[Oswyntail]

Pontyclun to Aberthaw via Cowbridge (sheer nostalgia). Another candidate for a circular run from Cardiff, taking in a vast tract of prime commuter country

 

[merlodlliw]

The line from Bala to Ffestiniog must have been awe-inspiring, when I travel the road Bala to Trawsfynydd the line is hanging from the mountain plus that magnificent viaduct also viewable from the road.

One line I would have loved to travel for sheer enjoyment,

Bob

 

[ValleyLines142]

NR are actually going to do this. Reopen disused platform on City side of station and create Bay on prison side for Cardiff Bay shuttle. Quadrupling the Newport Rd bridge has been rejected to due cost/disruption idea is to improve the flow of passengers at station esp at peak times. The footfall is over 2 million nearly all using the single island platform having 4 platform for valley lines services will ease congestion.

Sounds great. Haven't been to Queen Street for a while though actually because I change at Central now.

 

[507 001]

got to be Caernarfon to Afon Wen.
If you want to get to Porthmadog or Pwhelli on the train the journey is ridiculous!

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Agreed, going via Aberystwyth isn't a fast(er) way of getting from north to south but for improving a) the links from the south to the west/central and b) the overall connectiveness of the rail network, I personally think that the Camarthen-Lampeter-Aberystwyth is a "no-brainer" .. Wales's Woodhead?

Agreed , in its heyday was around 3 / 4 trains a day. No chance in the present world. Bus it ! (let us be real)

 

[Welshman]

got to be Caernarfon to Afon Wen.
If you want to get to Porthmadog or Pwhelli on the train the journey is ridiculous!

You could try the Welsh Highland Railway on the days it's running!

 

[merlodlliw]

got to be Caernarfon to Afon Wen.
If you want to get to Porthmadog or Pwhelli on the train the journey is ridiculous!

I know what you mean, but the line ends at Bangor.

I recall what was known in the trade as the"Liverpool Club Train" it left Lime st at 4.25p.m. headed for Afon Wen and beyond, it arrived in Rhyl at 5.50p.m.
having used the Alton Curve to Chester. Circa 1960s. The "Manchester Club" arrived in Rhyl at 6.05p.m. but headed for Llandudno having left Exchange at 4.30p.m.


Bob

 

[cle]

I think so too (was my original post on this thread).

There are a lot of different opportunities it would create. Access to both Lampeter and Aber Unis would be a big off peak travel demand, and the one at Bangor too from West Wales.

Freight demand would help too. I'm not sure if freight leaving South Wales would be better off going that way to the North. Probably not - maybe to Ireland though?

Extending the London - Carmarthen HST to Aber would put the cat amongst the pigeons for ATW!

 

[merlodlliw]

Extending the London - Carmarthen HST to Aber would put the cat amongst the pigeons for ATW![/QUOTE]

It would indeed, but how would the HST get to Aberyswyth,after Carmarthen. The big Uni is at Aberyswyth,but alas the choice is not train travel even though there is service of sorts.
Bangor & Glyndwr appear to have the best used rail services,

 

[cle]

Well obviously with reopening the line via Lampeter (another uni) - as per our conversation!

Currently the route would be via road!

And nobody travels to the uni by train - why is that? People make choices based on options. A crappy two hourly service through no-mans land isn't really much of an option. I'd drive too.

 

[WelshBluebird]

With regards to a possible South to North route via Aberystwyth (if the line was reopened), I would suggest it would be a good thing even if it offered no time savings.
For one you'd actually get competition / a choice on the routes (which can be useful in times of disruption / engineering works), and secondly am I the only one who finds it totally nuts that to go from the far south west parts of wales to the far north west parts by rail you have to go all the way over the england, go north from there, and then go all the way west again. It just seems stupid. Even if the new route was slow, surely it would end up faster than having to do that?

 

[the sniper]

The line from Bala to Ffestiniog must have been awe-inspiring, when I travel the road Bala to Trawsfynydd the line is hanging from the mountain plus that magnificent viaduct also viewable from the road.

One line I would have loved to travel for sheer enjoyment,

Bob

Certainly would have. The route is well worth walking to the West of this point on that road: http://g.co/maps/5ymke You'd be best going during a very dry spell or when it's icy (realistically it'll be the latter ), as there are some muddy patches in the cuttings over the first 1 1/2 miles. Most of that is fine though (I did the first bit once in trainers), and after that it's either grass and/or ballast.

It's worth making the effort if only for walking the large viaduct about a mile in, though the scenery is good for miles as you're high above the valley.

 

[thedbdiboy]

The line from Bala to Ffestiniog must have been awe-inspiring, when I travel the road Bala to Trawsfynydd the line is hanging from the mountain plus that magnificent viaduct also viewable from the road.

One line I would have loved to travel for sheer enjoyment,

Bob

I've always thought that would make a fabulous tourist extension for the Ffestiniog. You'd be able to get from Canaerfon to Bala on narrow gauge railways through spectacular scenery

 

[Rogercas]

I've always thought that would make a fabulous tourist extension for the Ffestiniog. You'd be able to get from Canaerfon to Bala on narrow gauge railways through spectacular scenery

Sure, but most of the extant trackbed is in private hands although as others have pointed out you can walk the Cwm Prysor to Trawsfynydd section by courtesy of the landowners. Again, the section south from Blaenau is now designated for the Velorail project (pedal trains!).

A major deviation would be required around Llyn Celyn as proposed before closure of the line.

However I feel that there may come a saturation point with the number of narrow guage railways in North Wales spreading the consumer spend too thinly around all the railways for them all to thrive in the long term.

But if we want to have a fantasy where money is no object, consider extending the LLangollen Railway from Corwen to Bala and thence onwards to Blaenau Ffestiniog. A 100 year project perhaps?