Short ticketed 14 times and awaiting a letter, I'm so scared please help

[shortticket]

train ticket purchased: open return birmingham moor street to banbury, chiltern railways
~£16

I get trains from birmingham moor street to bicester north almost ever friday, sometimes saturdays and i return on monday mornings.

I used to get tickets from birmingham to bicester north, but when I started struggling a bit with money I started buying tickets to banbury because it was like £3 cheaper, original ticket is like £19. I use the 16-25 railcard, which is valid till 2027 and always on hand.

a trian inspector came to see my ticket at bicester north, filed a report, he took my ID, and told me I should receive a letter home soon where I can explain why my ticket didn’t match my travel.
I can currently afford it, and I should’ve started buying the full tickets, It just kinda left my mind bc I’ve been busy with exams.

I use trainline to buy my tickets and i’m very aware they can access that. I think i’ve done this around 14 times, when i first counted.
Once he left today, i bought a ticket form bicester north to banbury , now I book all my tickets on trainpal

I have no idea whats going to happen, I will do anything to get a out of court settlement. PLEASE HELP

 

[John R]

Welcome to the forum that you really didn’t want to have to join!

I’m afraid this is likely to be a case of “penny wise, pound foolish”, as if you are offered an out of court settlement then it will be based on the full Anytime Single fare to Bicester, which is currently £25.90, with no offset for anything you paid, and no reduction for your railcard. And given you’ve done this several times, that is going to add up, and result in a substantial amount of double payment for the journeys undertaken.

Add to this, you’ll need to pay an admin fee that typically is around £150.

I’m not sure why you have changed your ticketing arrangements. Starting to use a different one might lead them to think you have something to hide going forward - surely better to continue to use the existing one at least until this has all blown over?

When you get the letter, post it here, suitably redacted, and we can help ensure you craft something suitably apologetic, preferably without recourse to ChatGPT.

 

[furlong]

I’m afraid this is likely to be a case of “penny wise, pound foolish”, as if you are offered an out of court settlement then it will be based on the full Anytime Single fare to Bicester, which is currently £25.90, with no offset for anything you paid, and no reduction for your railcard.

But that would be exploitation. They shouldn't ask for that fare and if they did it should be challenged robustly. The journey from Birmingham to Banbury is already paid for in full, isn't it? There is no legal basis for asking for that journey to be paid for twice! It's only the fares between Banbury and Bicester North that would form part of a compensation claim.

I’m not sure why you have changed your ticketing arrangements. Starting to use a different one might lead them to think you have something to hide going forward - surely better to continue to use the existing one at least until this has all blown over?

This is irrelevant. There is no need to justify which retailer is used to buy tickets and nothing can or would be read into such a change.

 

[John R]

But that would be exploitation. They shouldn't ask for that fare and if they did it should be challenged robustly. The journey from Birmingham to Banbury is already paid for in full, isn't it? There is no legal basis for asking for that journey to be paid for twice! It's only the fares between Banbury and Bicester North that would form part of a compensation claim.

I’m describing the standard practice of most operators in their out of court settlement offers. (GTR being an honourable exception.) We can debate whether it’s appropriate, but the fact is that at the moment, that’s the most likely outcome for the OP.

And challenging an OOC settlement offer is a very high risk approach as it can be withdrawn and prosecution commenced.

 

[furlong]

I’m describing the standard practice of most operators in their out of court settlement offers. (GTR being an honourable exception.) We can debate whether it’s appropriate, but the fact is that at the moment, that’s the most likely outcome for the OP.

This is NOT what operators do, and if one did, and was challenged, they'd probably just say they made an error.
Perhaps you are mixing this up with situations where the original ticket wasn't valid for the first part of the journey? (E.g. no railcard, train didn't stop at the ticket destination station etc.)

And challenging an OOC settlement offer is a very high risk approach as it can be withdrawn and prosecution commenced.

Can you find a single thread on this forum where that happened? It would be completely improper behaviour and you simply don't see train companies doing that. The only basis for withdrawing a settlement offer before its deadline or rejection is the discovery of new evidence that undermines it.

 

[John R]

This is NOT what operators do, and if one did, and was challenged, they'd probably just say they made an error.
Perhaps you are mixing this up with situations where the original ticket wasn't valid for the first part of the journey? (E.g. no railcard, train didn't stop at the ticket destination station etc.)


Can you find a single thread on this forum where that happened? It would be completely improper behaviour and you simply don't see train companies doing that. The only basis for withdrawing a settlement offer before its deadline or rejection is the discovery of new evidence that undermines it.

This is just a short fare, albeit one whereby the ticket purchased is for the majority of the journey, rather than the usual instance where the short fare is just a fraction of the journey.

On the latter point, we actively discourage people argue the amount of a settlement offer on the grounds of it not being fair (as opposed to an instance where there has been a mistake in the calculation), so it’s hardly surprising that we don’t see any instances where someone has tried it.

Still, my advice here obviously isn’t helping so I’ll be quiet.

 

[furlong]

(as opposed to an instance where there has been a mistake in the calculation)

This situation *would* be a mistake in the calculation. There was "no ticket" after Banbury. Everything was in order prior to that station.

 

[spotify95]

Welcome to the forum that you really didn’t want to have to join!

I’m afraid this is likely to be a case of “penny wise, pound foolish”, as if you are offered an out of court settlement then it will be based on the full Anytime Single fare to Bicester, which is currently £25.90, with no offset for anything you paid, and no reduction for your railcard. And given you’ve done this several times, that is going to add up, and result in a substantial amount of double payment for the journeys undertaken.

Add to this, you’ll need to pay an admin fee that typically is around £150.

I’m not sure why you have changed your ticketing arrangements. Starting to use a different one might lead them to think you have something to hide going forward - surely better to continue to use the existing one at least until this has all blown over?

When you get the letter, post it here, suitably redacted, and we can help ensure you craft something suitably apologetic, preferably without recourse to ChatGPT.

Just to also add, given that the OP report it was Chiltern Railways who filed the report:

1. They could get a letter from TIL (Transport Investigations Limited) instead of Chiltern. TIL are much more difficult to settle with, but it can be done.

2. Just prior to the 6 month cut off limit they get a letter from Chiltern asking to attend an interview, along with a SJPN being bundled in as well. This has been happening more recently, but can still be settled out of court.

 

[shortticket]

Welcome to the forum that you really didn’t want to have to join!

I’m afraid this is likely to be a case of “penny wise, pound foolish”, as if you are offered an out of court settlement then it will be based on the full Anytime Single fare to Bicester, which is currently £25.90, with no offset for anything you paid, and no reduction for your railcard. And given you’ve done this several times, that is going to add up, and result in a substantial amount of double payment for the journeys undertaken.

Add to this, you’ll need to pay an admin fee that typically is around £150.

I’m not sure why you have changed your ticketing arrangements. Starting to use a different one might lead them to think you have something to hide going forward - surely better to continue to use the existing one at least until this has all blown over?

When you get the letter, post it here, suitably redacted, and we can help ensure you craft something suitably apologetic, preferably without recourse to ChatGPT.

Okay thank you so much, do you think I can email them and request and email instead of a letter?
Honestly, I am just a uni student and I need all the help I can get for an out of court settlement.
Do you think maybe apologising to them via email before the letter comes would make things worse? I want to contact them and apologise because I know what I did was wrong and I haven't learnt my lesson. Of course I will accept whatever fine they will give me but I must have this out of court somehow.

 

[shortticket]

But that would be exploitation. They shouldn't ask for that fare and if they did it should be challenged robustly. The journey from Birmingham to Banbury is already paid for in full, isn't it? There is no legal basis for asking for that journey to be paid for twice! It's only the fares between Banbury and Bicester North that would form part of a compensation claim.



This is irrelevant. There is no need to justify which retailer is used to buy tickets and nothing can or would be read into such a change.

Yes my Birmingham to Banbury travel was paid in full and was an open return ticket.

This is just a short fare, albeit one whereby the ticket purchased is for the majority of the journey, rather than the usual instance where the short fare is just a fraction of the journey.

On the latter point, we actively discourage people argue the amount of a settlement offer on the grounds of it not being fair (as opposed to an instance where there has been a mistake in the calculation), so it’s hardly surprising that we don’t see any instances where someone has tried it.

Still, my advice here obviously isn’t helping so I’ll be quiet.

Honestly, I will pay whatever fine is given. I just really really need an out-of-court settlement. I know they wont care much but I am a uni student who made an honest mistake and I know with my heart I wont do it again. I cant go to court though, I cannot and I need all the advice I can get to help. I will post the letter here as soon as I get it, I heard it can take up to 5 months

I am so very grateful for you advice, I would greatly appreciate it if you could continue to help me

 

[shortticket]

Just to also add, given that the OP report it was Chiltern Railways who filed the report:

1. They could get a letter from TIL (Transport Investigations Limited) instead of Chiltern. TIL are much more difficult to settle with, but it can be done.

2. Just prior to the 6 month cut off limit they get a letter from Chiltern asking to attend an interview, along with a SJPN being bundled in as well. This has been happening more recently, but can still be settled out of court.

could you please further explain your second point, what is SJPN and what will happen? I am happy to take any fine as long as its out of court. If I have to attend an interview I will.

 

[30907]

could you please further explain your second point, what is SJPN and what will happen? I am happy to take any fine as long as its out of court. If I have to attend an interview I will.

SJPN - Single Justice Procedure Notice. It's like going to court, but for straightforward cases where you would plead guilty.

 

[shortticket]

SJPN - Single Justice Procedure Notice. It's like going to court, but for straightforward cases where you would plead guilty.

I really am trying to avoid court tho. can I write to them once I receive the letter asking for out of court settlement?

 

[notmyrealname]

Yes, you'll be able to write. You can post your draft letter here and we'll help you to refine it.

 

[John R]

I really am trying to avoid court tho. can I write to them once I receive the letter asking for out of court settlement?

Yes, you will have that opportunity, and for most cases, provided you are very apologetic, you are likely to be offered one.

but I am a uni student who made an honest mistake

Being blunt, it wasn’t an honest mistake, it was a deliberate attempt to pay less than the correct fare. That can in no way be described as honest.

Using that description in any letter you send will not help your cause.

 

[spotify95]

could you please further explain your second point, what is SJPN and what will happen? I am happy to take any fine as long as its out of court. If I have to attend an interview I will.

As someone else has already said, SJPN is like going to court, but it can all be dealt with via post. However, even if you do get one of those, there's a good change you'll still be able to settle it without it going to court - there's quite a few threads on Chiltern recently about this.

You should be able to get this dealt with through an out of court settlement though.

Basically, wait for the letter from Chiltern to arrive (can take up to 6 months), then reply to them depending on what they are asking in the letter.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay thank you so much, do you think I can email them and request and email instead of a letter?
Honestly, I am just a uni student and I need all the help I can get for an out of court settlement.
Do you think maybe apologising to them via email before the letter comes would make things worse? I want to contact them and apologise because I know what I did was wrong and I haven't learnt my lesson. Of course I will accept whatever fine they will give me but I must have this out of court somehow.

If you are a student you may be able to get some free advice / legal advice via your student union in relation to this - you should ask them about that option now to see what help might be available.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

The journey from Birmingham to Banbury is already paid for in full, isn't it? There is no legal basis for asking for that journey to be paid for twice! It's only the fares between Banbury and Bicester North that would form part of a compensation claim.

Perhaps the mods should split this into a separate thread, but at what point in a journey does a short ticket qualify for the ‘only charge them for the rest of the journey’, in your opinion?
Obviously, someone travelling from, say, London Blackfriars to Haywards Heath on a ticket to London Bridge should not expect that (full) fare paid to be knocked off the total due, if caught. It’s short-faring.

But it’s still short-faring if they held a London Blackfriars to Balcombe ticket, too, even if they paid for most of the journey, no?

 

[furlong]

at what point in a journey does a short ticket qualify for the ‘only charge them for the rest of the journey’, in your opinion?

Very simple: Any part of the journey for which a valid ticket was presented - taking into account the stations at which the train stopped - cannot be charged for again. It's not controversial to charge point-to-point fares (rather than excesses) to fill in the gaps. Even when the total is higher than a through fare would have been, the argument is simply that an honest person in possession of the first tickets would have purchased the others and (contrary to common belief) having completed the first purchase had no entitlement to any over-distance excess (which is still often sold when it isn't supposed to be).

 

[shortticket]

Yes, i am very sorry for my wrong doing, and I will apologise profusely. Do you know how much the fine may be?

If you are a student you may be able to get some free advice / legal advice via your student union in relation to this - you should ask them about that option now to see what help might be available.

ooo thank you so much, i will look into that

As someone else has already said, SJPN is like going to court, but it can all be dealt with via post. However, even if you do get one of those, there's a good change you'll still be able to settle it without it going to court - there's quite a few threads on Chiltern recently about this.

You should be able to get this dealt with through an out of court settlement though.

Basically, wait for the letter from Chiltern to arrive (can take up to 6 months), then reply to them depending on what they are asking in the letter.

thank you so much, everyone has been very kind and I am very grateful. I will post the letter here as soon as I get it.

Yes, you will have that opportunity, and for most cases, provided you are very apologetic, you are likely to be offered one.


Being blunt, it wasn’t an honest mistake, it was a deliberate attempt to pay less than the correct fare. That can in no way be described as honest.

Using that description in any letter you send will not help your cause.

Thank you for being honest with me, I am glad you told me, and I'm hoping you can help me reply to the letter once it arrives?

Also I was really wondering if it would seem bad if I emailed them asking if they can deal with it via email instead of post, as I am currently with my parents but I will soon move back to uni and need my address changed again. I also would like to apologise in the email for my actions and the mistakes I have made. Is this a bad idea?

 

[shortticket]

Yes, you'll be able to write. You can post your draft letter here and we'll help you to refine it.

thank you so muchhhh

 

[shortticket]

Hello, i recieved the letter, any help would be great, I'm panicking so much because it feels as though I cant do anything. i really need an out of court settlement

I am hoping to reply with this, please give me advice on my response:


I am writing in response to a letter I received on the 30th of August 2024. I would start by sincerely apologising for the incident.

I did travel on 10/06/2024 from Bicester North to Birmingham Moor Street with a ticket from Banbury to Birmingham Moor Street. I recognise that what I did was wrong and

I had a late arrival at the station and rushed to board the train, as I sat down my ticket was checked so I informed the inspector that I had a ticket from Banbury but not from Bicester North, and I asked to purchase a ticket for the Bicester North to Banbury segment. I’ve seen others do this before, but I was told it wasn’t possible, and a report was filed.

I know now that there are no excuses, and that boarding a train without a ticket that is valid for the entire journey is misconduct and wrong and I would like to apologise for my actions. I deeply regret my actions and any inconvenience caused to the inspector and Chiltern Railways. I take full responsibility for my mistake and assure you that this will not happen again in the future. If there any further steps I need to take to resolve this matter, including payment for the correct fare, I will ensure it is done immediately.

Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused, and I appreciate your understanding in this matter.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

The letter also makes mention of other occasions where I may have avoided the correct rail fare. should I list them all or just
mention it has happened in past?

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello, i recieved the letter, any help would be great, I'm panicking so much because it feels as though I cant do anything. i really need an out of court settlement

I am hoping to reply with this, please give me advice on my response:


I am writing in response to a letter I received on the 30th of August 2024. I would start by sincerely apologising for the incident.

I did travel on 10/06/2024 from Bicester North to Birmingham Moor Street with a ticket from Banbury to Birmingham Moor Street. I recognise that what I did was wrong and

I had a late arrival at the station and rushed to board the train, as I sat down my ticket was checked so I informed the inspector that I had a ticket from Banbury but not from Bicester North, and I asked to purchase a ticket for the Bicester North to Banbury segment. I’ve seen others do this before, but I was told it wasn’t possible, and a report was filed.

I know now that there are no excuses, and that boarding a train without a ticket that is valid for the entire journey is misconduct and wrong and I would like to apologise for my actions. I deeply regret my actions and any inconvenience caused to the inspector and Chiltern Railways. I take full responsibility for my mistake and assure you that this will not happen again in the future. If there any further steps I need to take to resolve this matter, including payment for the correct fare, I will ensure it is done immediately.

Once again, I apologize for any inconvenience caused, and I appreciate your understanding in this matter.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

Don't say "I would start" - this doesn't make sense. Just replace that sentence with "I am sorry for the incident, and-" and segue into your explanation from there.

However, as they have detected repeated short faring, I probably wouldn't try to explain what you did. It's of no relevance that you were late or were in a rush; you already had the short ticket, and have demonstrated your intent to evade the fare.

Apologise is spelled with an S in British English.

Close with a call to action. Say "I am willing to pay for any outstanding fares, plus any costs you have incurred in dealing with my case, and I look forward to hearing from you further".

The letter also makes mention of other occasions where I may have avoided the correct rail fare. should I list them all or just
mention it has happened in past?

You should probably list them all, they know about them and it's basically an honesty exercise at this point.

 

[shortticket]

Don't say "I would start" - this doesn't make sense. Just replace that sentence with "I am sorry for the incident, and-" and segue into your explanation from there.

However, as they have detected repeated short faring, I probably wouldn't try to explain what you did. It's of no relevance that you were late or were in a rush; you already had the short ticket, and have demonstrated your intent to evade the fare.

Apologise is spelled with an S in British English.

Close with a call to action. Say "I am willing to pay for any outstanding fares, plus any costs you have incurred in dealing with my case, and I look forward to hearing from you further".

You should probably list them all, they know about them and it's basically an honesty exercise at this point.

Okay thank you so much, im editing my letter right now, I want to post it and email it by Monday at the latest.
I have short tickdetd multiple times tho, like 18 times
how do I write that?
I repeatedly bought the open return from Birmingham moor street to banbury

Welcome to the forum that you really didn’t want to have to join!

I’m afraid this is likely to be a case of “penny wise, pound foolish”, as if you are offered an out of court settlement then it will be based on the full Anytime Single fare to Bicester, which is currently £25.90, with no offset for anything you paid, and no reduction for your railcard. And given you’ve done this several times, that is going to add up, and result in a substantial amount of double payment for the journeys undertaken.

Add to this, you’ll need to pay an admin fee that typically is around £150.

I’m not sure why you have changed your ticketing arrangements. Starting to use a different one might lead them to think you have something to hide going forward - surely better to continue to use the existing one at least until this has all blown over?

When you get the letter, post it here, suitably redacted, and we can help ensure you craft something suitably apologetic, preferably without recourse to ChatGPT.

I got the letter, im stressing so much

also can i write:
Given the seriousness of the situation, I am writing to respectfully request the possibility of resolving this matter through an out-of-court settlement. I am willing to pay any fines or administrative fees necessary to compensate for my actions and to demonstrate my sincere commitment to rectifying the situation.

I genuinely hope that you might consider my request to settle this matter without it proceeding to court. I am eager to put this situation behind me and am committed to being a more responsible and compliant passenger in the future.


or is that bad?

 

[FenMan]

You

Okay thank you so much, im editing my letter right now, I want to post it and email it by Monday at the latest.
I have short tickdetd multiple times tho, like 18 times
how do I write that?
I repeatedly bought the open return from Birmingham moor street to banbury

You have deliberately evaded paying the correct fare on numerous occasions, so making excuses (I was in a hurry, pressed for cash, I've got ADHD etc) won't wash.

It looks like the railway already knows what you have done, so be open and honest if you want to avoid a criminal conviction.

It'll cost you, but that is down to the decisions you have made.

There is good advice on on here from @Hadders on how to respond to letters like this. I strongly suggest you follow their advice.

 

[shortticket]

i honestly am sorry, and i really need help with this letter to get an out of court settlement

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to a letter I received on the 30th of August 2024. I sincerely apologise for the incident. I did travel on 10/06/2024 from Bicester North to Birmingham Moor Street with a ticket from Banbury to Birmingham Moor Street. I recognise that what I did was wrong.

I have previously bought open return tickets from Birmingham Moor Street to Banbury instead of Bicester North. I know now that there are no excuses, and that boarding a train without a ticket that is valid for the entire journey is misconduct and wrong and I would like to apologise for my actions.
I deeply regret my actions and any inconvenience caused to the inspector and Chiltern Railways. I take full responsibility for my mistake and assure you that this will not happen again in the future. I am willing to pay for any outstanding fares, plus any costs you have incurred in dealing with my case, and I look forward to hearing from you further

Once again, I apologise for any inconvenience caused, and I appreciate your understanding in this matter.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Yours sincerely,

if I add times I short ticketed to this would it be okay?

 

[Hadders]

Rather than saying 'I am willing to pay...' I suggest saying'I wondered if it would be possible to deal with this case without going to court. I am willing to pay the outstanding fares plus your administrative costs in dealing with the issue.'

If you're going to tell them about other times you've travelled with invalid tickets then you might want to say something like 'I have researched my Trainline ticket account and I believe that between xx/xx/xx and yy/yy/yy I have avoided paying the correct fare for my journey on xx occasions.

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH, i will edit my letter.

I know this sounds silly, but would it be bad if I went to the Banbury offices and apologised as well? or tried to talk to the lead investigator.

also, im not trying to get a pity party but should I include anything to do with the fact I'm a student who works to afford uni

Do not go to their offices or try to talk to the lead investigator.

I wouldn’t mention uni etc, it sounds like a ‘sob’ story and, arguably, someone intelligent to go to university should know they need to pay the correct fare to travel by train.

 

[shortticket]

Rather than saying 'I am willing to pay...' I suggest saying'I wondered if it would be possible to deal with this case without going to court. I am willing to pay the outstanding fares plus your administrative costs in dealing with the issue.'

If you're going to tell them about other times you've travelled with invalid tickets then you might want to say something like 'I have researched my Trainline ticket account and I believe that between xx/xx/xx and yy/yy/yy I have avoided paying the correct fare for my journey on xx occasions.

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH, i will edit my letter.

I know this sounds silly, but would it be bad if I went to the Banbury offices and apologised as well? or tried to talk to the lead investigator.

also, im not trying to get a pity party but should I include anything to do with the fact I'm a student who works to afford uni

 

[AlterEgo]

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH, i will edit my letter.

I know this sounds silly, but would it be bad if I went to the Banbury offices and apologised as well? or tried to talk to the lead investigator.

There’s no point in doing that. They won’t care, it’s just a job to them and they basically want all the fares back.

 

[Haywain]

I know this sounds silly, but would it be bad if I went to the Banbury offices and apologised as well? or tried to talk to the lead investigator.

Don't waste your time trying this - there is no certainty they would even be there, as they may work from home or other offices.