Short_Ticket

[MotCO]

@Haywain
Given what you have mentioned ref impact of court case on work/dismissal for your daughter I think you and she need to be sure of this given the trade off concerned if it goes to court and she is found guilty - which is likely, as others mentioned. Such an outcome may result in lower cost (fine etc), plus record - possibly lower cost, even than the train company may settle out of court, but of course if the consequences are a loss of job and the income from that, then a decision to pay a specialist solicitor in the hope they can mitigate it may be considered worth the expenditure.

Discussion with Union, professional body and even HR to be clear about that will thus be important. A good HR person should be able to advise confidentially, unless they are bound to suspend you just for raising the possibility. After all this is a train fare evasion case, not admitting to them medical negligence or theft from employer or some such.

I personally think that @WesternLancer is being a bit alarmist. You mention in your first post that your daughter works in the NHS, but (quite properly) doesn't specify what type of role. I think the only requirement is to disclose any convictions to your employer - it would be much worse if you didn't - and I'm not convinced that a fare dodging conviction would result in suspension or worse. (The only exception could be if she had a history of a poor disciplinary record, negligence, poor performance etc, and this is the last straw which breaks the camel's back.) If she is in a post where there are often vacancies and which is hard to recruit to, that may be in her favour.

I used to be a manager in the NHS, and I don't think that an offence committed outside work and not impinging on professional performance would be detrimental. Would a speeding conviction lead to dismissal? - I think not. Likewise a fare dodging conviction.

 

[ainsworth74]

Would a speeding conviction lead to dismissal? - I think not. Likewise a fare dodging conviction.

Whilst I agree with your general thrust I do have to say that I've seen more than a few job applications and a few contracts of employment where speeding convictions are explicitly excluded from things you must report to your employer (or prospective employer). It seems that there's something of a general acceptance that people are likely to pick up speeding convictions so employers don't worry about them and don't want to know about them. Using speeding convictions as a sign that someone is unlikely to be dismissed for another type of criminal conviction might be slightly shaky ground!

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@011976091 as someone else suggested the solicitor firm suggested are, as far as we are aware (again having no direct experience or link), very good but they are likely to also be very expensive. Specialists in this area are not usually required and I would suggest that, whilst you may wish to speak with them, you also consider engaging a local firm of solicitors who are likely to also be considerably cheaper but equally as able of securing a favourable outcome avoiding court. The Law Society keep a register here which you can search. Simply select crime as the issue and then enter the relevant postcode and it should show all the local firms that deal in criminal matters.

 

[Gloster]

One small point if looking at the various websites that rate solicitors. Do read the entries carefully, don’t just look at the number of stars. I know of one firm that has a lot of genuine five-star reviews, but if you look more carefully they are all for one specific solicitor who no longer works for them and was a divorce law specialist.

 

[WesternLancer]

I personally think that @WesternLancer is being a bit alarmist. You mention in your first post that your daughter works in the NHS, but (quite properly) doesn't specify what type of role. I think the only requirement is to disclose any convictions to your employer - it would be much worse if you didn't - and I'm not convinced that a fare dodging conviction would result in suspension or worse. (The only exception could be if she had a history of a poor disciplinary record, negligence, poor performance etc, and this is the last straw which breaks the camel's back.) If she is in a post where there are often vacancies and which is hard to recruit to, that may be in her favour.

I used to be a manager in the NHS, and I don't think that an offence committed outside work and not impinging on professional performance would be detrimental. Would a speeding conviction lead to dismissal? - I think not. Likewise a fare dodging conviction.

Thanks Motco - I agree with you - not my intention to be alarmist at all - just to suggest OP/daughter checks out this matter work wise carefully so can balance the decision on that.
My hunch is just as you say - thus potentially not worth spending a sum on a legal fee (as well as court fine etc) if consequences at work would be as you say, this was the point I was trying to make. OP and daughter can then balance the issue up before it is too late. But time to get an idea of the fee and the consequences at work is now, not on the eve of the court date etc. Hope this helps clarify, and thanks for adding your post ref my own. I think you make a very helpful point.

 

[011976091]

The rail company very generously offered a one-off settlement which my daughter accepted. The matter is now closed.


Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I am grateful for your advice and reassurance but, most of all, for acting without judgement.


During this past three months, I found the book ‘The Honest Truth About Dishonesty’ by Dan Ariely. I read a particularly fitting line that I paraphrase here; ‘you don’t have locks on your doors to keep burglars out, you have them to keep honest people out’. Something similar could be said for ticketing barriers.

 

[WesternLancer]

The rail company very generously offered a one-off settlement which my daughter accepted. The matter is now closed.


Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I am grateful for your advice and reassurance but, most of all, for acting without judgement.


During this past three months, I found a book ‘The Honest Truth About Dishonesty’ by Dan Ariely. I read a particularly fitting line that I paraphrase here; ‘you don’t have locks on your doors to keep burglars out, you have them to keep honest people out’. Something similar could be said for ticketing barriers.

Thanks for the update - pleased to hear this and hope it's a relief to you and your daughter. Glad to hear it is now closed.

And, whatever she does, thanks to your daughter for her work in the NHS in these tricky times especially.

PS - good quote!

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for coming back to let us know that you were able to settle the matter. It really does help to demonstrate the value of this forum in giving advice to people who find themselves in trouble when it comes to railway ticketing matters.

Please do post in the future if you require any further advice when it comes to railway tickets.