Shortage of volunteers

[Flying Phil]

.......I write all this with the caveat that there's no bad blood on my part, and I certainly don't want to talk the line or my experiences down. I love the GCR and the people I've had the pleasure of working with over the past decade. There have been some wonderful memories, especially being there when Tornado ran its first public trains or witnessing at point blank range Sir Lamiel giving the aforementioned ORR an aneurysm with its over-zealous TPO runs back in the day! I will view with interest the progress you make over the coming years from afar, particularly regarding bridging the gap. I would absolutely recommend to anybody from the area reading this to give it a go, if you feel you can give the time. We're so lucky to have it on our doorstep.

However, I just don't share the view that the volunteer situation - either at the line or across the wider heritage sector - is as rosy and secure as some make it out to be. I do feel we're at a crossroads as a wider industry. The twin impacts of greater role scrutiny and the limited shelf-life of older volunteers with bespoke skills are a real danger to maintaining the necessary workforce. The former ultimately made me hang up my boots prematurely, when I felt I could have given a few more days before I leave in January.

Indeed, at smaller railways the grim reality is already starting to bite. I write this as a railway in Hampshire closes its doors after 55 years, citing an "aging workforce" and lack of new volunteers as one of the major reasons. My fear is that this malaise is only going to work its way up through bigger and bigger railways unless something changes.

PS - Thank you for your kind words, it's nice to know. I'll probably be down to the station to drop off my trusty winter trenchcoat between now and leaving, so put the word out if anyone would like one.

..... A very informative post and several points well made. I remain optimistic for our future, speaking as a volunteer who has "come and gone" over the years as my personal situation has changed. I'm sure that our paths will have crossed unknowingly on the GCR ......and a big "Thank You" for your efforts over the past years.

 

[swanhill41]

With regards to volunteers,I think a comparison with the so called charity shops is a good idea.

The shops are in the main run as commercial operations...That is to make a profit that can help the charity to do its work.

Simple yes,but I have 1st hand knowledge of how in practice they operate...Some of the sales units that the big 10 operate are the size in sales floor area of your
standard Aldi store and a bit more...One I know has a manager on £23.0k and assistant on £17.0k....And a paid driver as well ...Might point out heavily into furniture which needs picking up and then delivering.

Point of this to say they have to be professional and apply most of the disciplines,marketing practices of a non charity retail operation.
The heritage railway sector is moving very much into this professional zone,both because of H&S regs etc ,but because of competition for the entertainment pennies need this more focused operation....To do this you need people who are employed ,who are commited in turning up...How far you would have to go in this direction is an unknown..Much to my astonishment I hear the KWVR is 90% or so volunteer !...For how long,I don't know.

Summary...Change is in the air with regards to how these heritage railway lines work...

 

[Calthrop]

Thoughts brought up by this thread, about my perceptions (not first-hand, I'll admit) of the heritage railway scene in the USA. I do get the picture that that country is graced, at the time at which we now write, with an impressive number of steam heritage lines of assorted magnitudes -- some with a far greater length than anything we have in Britain, though that is in part a function of respective national scales -- plus a fair amount of "steam on the main line".

The end of steam in regular commercial service in the States occurred -- pace a couple of America-specific fairly minor complicating factors -- nearly a decade earlier than was the case in Great Britain. The last generation of enthusiasts to know and love "bread-and-butter" steam at first-hand is thus -- to be a bit morbid -- nearly a decade further down the road to old age and incapacity / the graveyard, there; than obtains here. Nonetheless: however this may come about (for instance -- as discussed in this thread, e.g. @swanhill41's recent post -- perhaps a high incidence of paid employment rather than volunteering?), steam preservation in the US would appear to be thriving today. I see this as cheering, and grounds for hope: the Yanks seem to be doing it -- maybe we can, too?

 

[Trackbedjolly]

With regards to volunteers,I think a comparison with the so called charity shops is a good idea.

The shops are in the main run as commercial operations...That is to make a profit that can help the charity to do its work.

Simple yes,but I have 1st hand knowledge of how in practice they operate...Some of the sales units that the big 10 operate are the size in sales floor area of your
standard Aldi store and a bit more...One I know has a manager on £23.0k and assistant on £17.0k....And a paid driver as well ...Might point out heavily into furniture which needs picking up and then delivering.

Point of this to say they have to be professional and apply most of the disciplines,marketing practices of a non charity retail operation.
The heritage railway sector is moving very much into this professional zone,both because of H&S regs etc ,but because of competition for the entertainment pennies need this more focused operation....To do this you need people who are employed ,who are commited in turning up...How far you would have to go in this direction is an unknown..Much to my astonishment I hear the KWVR is 90% or so volunteer !...For how long,I don't know.

Summary...Change is in the air with regards to how these heritage railway lines work...

My experience as a volunteer in a "so-called" charity shop compared to volunteering at a heritage railway (which I did on one occasion) is that the former tend to be in urban areas (towns or cities) with some form of access by Public Transport or within walking distance of home whereas the latter can be "in the middle of nowhere" with no PT available apart from taxis; that is a problem for me and maybe others.

Yes, charity shops have paid managers. These people have to manage a business where the annual income target is in the high tens of thousands or maybe a hundred thousand for the biggest shops; that is a big responsibility and they need to perform by inspiring their volunteers. I feel like I work hard in the shop, put in a big effort and I really enjoy it.

Volunteering at a heritage railway seemed rather different. I felt that I could have done a lot more in my single shift; there was not much effort required. Thus things seem to take a long time to get done. Some places probably require more work than others.
If you want a big income for your railway you should probably pay for that service.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I never actually asked to be a Platform Inspector - I was happy continuing to be a Porter, but it was deemed that due to my long service i really ought to be taking on those responsibilities - which, of course, put me in the firing line of greater H&S scrutiny as I was technically on the books as one despite not being "passed out". I completely understand why I was asked, and agreed to train mostly because I acknowledge it's a position where staff are needed to keep the station open on a regular basis, and naturally I want to do my bit. However, my casual levels of commitment weren't able to match the new requirements, which kind of made my mind up for me at a time when, if anything, my time available to give to the railway was going in the other direction. I guess I could have asked to be taken off the books as a PI, but that would have led to the same awkward conversations about my lack of commitment. I had initially agreed to train in the role on the (mistaken) assumption that things would continue more or less as they had done to that point, save for a few shifts shadowing an existing PI before passing out. Which, to my knowledge, was how it worked when I started at the line, but has clearly changed for understandable reasons.

I can't speak for your specific volunteering location but there seems to be an attitude, in the wider world, that volunteers can be managed just like full-time paid staff. Except you don't need to give the volunteer any money for their work. Similar to the way 'gig' companies and 'zero hours' employers expect their 'staff' to be available whenever they want them, even though they are either self-employed / not contracted to certain hours. In theory one can refuse jobs / shifts but do it too often (or even once) and you will mysteriously be overlooked for future potential jobs / shifts.

I guess if your (or any) organisation heavily reliant on volunteers had a surplus of volunteers the pressure on individuals to do more duties would be lessened. I stopped doing a voluntary activity because it became a job rather than a pleasant activity. If I was being paid, I would put up with 'brown stuff' because I got money in return but I'm certainly not having 'it' dumped on me for nothing!

 

[YorkshireBear]

Nobody has mentioned that joining the supporting society is a good way to support a railway and this can lead to joining the ranks of existing volunteers. The society magazines will have reports from the various departmental heads and will usually end with an appeal for more volunteer help.

Distance need not be an issue, especially if you get to know other people on a line that live near you. One of them is likely to have a car, even if you don't. I used to live in Middlesex and was a regular volunteer on the Ffestiniog Railway. That required an overnight drive on the Friday night at first, although later we used to go straight from work in the early evening so could get there at a rather late bedtime. Our tasks were usually working on the PW, so training then was mainly restricted to learning which end of a mattock was the handle.

Many years later I volunteered on the Nene Valley as I had moved to the Huntingdon area. Again I joined the PW gang, but had to give it up when I got too old. The spirit was still willing, but the flesh was decidedly less so!

However, I would advise anyone young and fit enough to investigate PW work as you get to see parts of the railway that others don't see. Well maintained track is just as important as well as maintained engines and working with a gang can be more rewarding where teamwork is required. I made friends doing that I'm still in touch with nearly 60 years later.

The most noble of all departments to volunteer in, I agree!

 

[70014IronDuke]

Nobody has mentioned that joining the supporting society is a good way to support a railway and this can lead to joining the ranks of existing volunteers. The society magazines will have reports from the various departmental heads and will usually end with an appeal for more volunteer help.
... I made friends doing that I'm still in touch with nearly 60 years later.

According to Wikipedia, John Arbuthnot Fisher, 1st Baron Fisher,.. was a wise, thoughtful man. Very deserving of a like or two (thousand).
Rather like this post.

 

[GWR4641]

I recently enquired at one of the railways appealing for experienced steam crews as I am a qualified steam driver on a heritage line and also a driver on the 'big railway'. I initially received an email which went a long way to answering my questions regarding volunteering, and which was very professional. The line is some distance from my home and would involve some thought and planning in getting there, accommodation etc, but, I believe, achievable. When I replied that I could not meet their double figure annual commitment of turns, but offered a week in the high season, I didn't receive a response.

Whilst I appreciate that in their eyes I may not be able to help, I would have hoped for some acknowledgement and maybe a point towards another department with less commitment required. To receive nothing makes me question why I was prepared to try and arrange things to help them out if they couldn't even reply to my email. A missed opportunity on their part.

As a man in my 40's I hope I still have many years of volunteering to offer, but having spent over 10 years becoming a steam driver I do not want to start all over again at the bottom as a cleaner. If your preserved line is looking for already qualified steam crew and has a minimum commitment of 7 turns a year please let me know!

 

[EvanDMU]

As one 'on the sharp end' of organising one of our heritage railways I can perhaps put some more flesh on this discussion.

Yes, there is a national shortage of volunteers. One of the biggest reasons for this is that the days of early retirement are now over. At one time we had a steady supply of persons in their early/late 50s who were looking for something to do, we could train them up and then we could get 10-15 years service out of them. Now we have people coming in in their late 60s and it's more difficult to satisfy their aspirations. A person who wants to be a driver is going to qualify at best when he or she is approaching 70, and most people seem to pack it in before they reach 75, even if they can keep up with the medical.

There is also serious competition with other areas for volunteers. Over the last 10 years many organisations have begun to heavily involve volunteers, and so if a person is looking for something to do then they've plenty of choice.

There's also a bit of an issue with the modern 'instant gratification' way of looking at things. We see many people who want to volunteer but they want to be a guard or a driver within weeks, if not days while from our side we have to be sure that the person is going to show commitment because bluntly proper training costs money and it has to be,from the railway's point of view, cost-effective.

Yes the regulatory requirements are greater than they were, but if you're looking to come into heritage railways, don't let that put you off. Most people drive a car, but they don't see having to study the Highway Code as a major regulatory issue, nor do they see complying with road traffic regulations as something that should be complained about.

I've long argued that the traditional business model of the heritage railway being run largely by volunteers and financed by casual 'bums on seats' has had its day and we will all need to be much cleverer if the industry is to continue to survive. Many railways already have this in hand.

So in short the current situation is nothing to panic about, but conversely it's not something that can be ignored. However I can say that volunteers will always continue to be made welcome at heritage railways, and it's unfortunate that some people writing in this thread have found otherwise.

 

[James H]

The Spa Valley Railway has cancelled all trains this Saturday due to a lack of volunteers

 

[Meerkat]

The Spa Valley Railway has cancelled all trains this Saturday due to a lack of volunteers

“We regret to announce that due to a shortage of Steam Locomotives, Diesel Drivers, Guards and Forge Farm Crossing Attendants”

That sounds bad, have they got terminal problems? That’s a days income lost.

 

[Llanigraham]

Not the first, and won't be the last!

The Corris has had to run diesel instead of steam a couple of times because there hasn't been a driver or fireman available.

 

[Nick Nation]

Not sure if this is due to volunteer shortage, but there's no service on the Rushden and Higham Railway until further notice.

 

[ComUtoR]

There's also a bit of an issue with the modern 'instant gratification' way of looking at things. We see many people who want to volunteer but they want to be a guard or a driver within weeks, if not days while from our side we have to be sure that the person is going to show commitment because bluntly proper training costs money and it has to be,from the railway's point of view, cost-effective.

A few questions please.

How long does it take to train a Driver and a Guard ? What does it involved etc ?
Considering they are 'volunteering' how much does it cost to train them ?

Cheers in advance.

 

[Train Boy]

How long does it take to train a Driver and a Guard ? What does it involved etc ?

At my local line, for a guard you first need to start as a porter. Once passed, you must spend 6 months as a porter before you can begin guard training. It is mainly down to availability, but if all went well it would certainly be less than 18 months, providing you are able to frequent turns to gain enough experience.

To become a driver, you must start as a loco cleaner. You can be promoted to 'passed cleaner/fireman' after roughly 3 years, and once again on to 'passed fireman/driver' after another 3 years or so. I'm more on the guarding side at my local railway, so I'm not 100% sure on the driving side just as a disclaimer so to speak.

 

[theironroad]

At my local line, for a guard you first need to start as a porter. Once passed, you must spend 6 months as a porter before you can begin guard training. It is mainly down to availability, but if all went well it would certainly be less than 18 months, providing you are able to frequent turns to gain enough experience.

To become a driver, you must start as a loco cleaner. You can be promoted to 'passed cleaner/fireman' after roughly 3 years, and once again on to 'passed fireman/driver' after another 3 years or so. I'm more on the guarding side at my local railway, so I'm not 100% sure on the driving side just as a disclaimer so to speak.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my maths suggests that it will be at last 9 years before you get to take charge of the train as a full driver???

 

[ComUtoR]

At my local line, for a guard you first need to start as a porter. Once passed, you must spend 6 months as a porter before you can begin guard training.

To become a driver, you must start as a loco cleaner. You can be promoted to 'passed cleaner/fireman' after roughly 3 years, and once again on to 'passed fireman/driver' after another 3 years or so.

Thanks for the answers. Not quite what I'm after but it does highlight the theme of the thread. Why must you start at the bottom and work your way up. There is no real need for it. 6yrs potentially to become a Driver is insane. It can take less than a year for a mainline qualification !

I'm genuinely interested how long the specific Driver/Guard training takes. Is there a minimum number of hours (like mainline) before you become qualified ? Is there a heritage equivalent of the rule book ? I can see that a minimum number of hours set over a few weekends a month could take a long while to qualify. Are there qualified steam train instructors ?

I can understand why there is a lack of volunteers if your forced to 'pay your dues' or work your way up from the bottom, and I can't see a genuine reason for it. Is there a glut in certain grades ?

 

[Train Boy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my maths suggests that it will be at last 9 years before you get to take charge of the train as a full driver???

At least 6 roughly, 3 as a cleaner, 3 as a fireman- then onto driver.

 

[trebor79]

I'm genuinely interested how long the specific Driver/Guard training takes. Is there a minimum number of hours (like mainline) before you become qualified ? Is there a heritage equivalent of the rule book?

I volunteered as a spotty faced 16 year old, was firing by 17, driving the 03 (on passenger duties) at 18 and effectively passed fireman/steam driver by 19.
Happy days!

 

[ComUtoR]

3yrs is still a long time but kudos for doing it. It must be hard to convince volunteers to give up 3yrs of their time.

Do you have a steam license ? Can you go on the mainline ?

 

[theblackwatch]

There are other ways to volunteer...I've just spent 3 hours this evening doing work for a preservation group without leaving my front room. There are a lot of admin jobs to do. Other people take parts home to restore. Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot of people who want the glamour jobs such as driving a loco when in reality, that is only one of a huge number of jobs needed for a preservation group. You won't have anything to drive if there aren't people fixing the track, maintaining/restoring the locos and stock, looking after the stations, cleaning the loos, writing the SMS, doing the accounts, working in the shop, ordering the sales goods, manning the buffet, repairing the buildings etc etc...

 

[trebor79]

3yrs is still a long time but kudos for doing it. It must be hard to convince volunteers to give up 3yrs of their time.

Do you have a steam license ? Can you go on the mainline ?

Haha no! This was all 20 years or more ago. I went every weekend in the winter to help with overhauls, and every weekend in the summer to do cleaning, which basically meant doing a bit of firing as well. I just sort of became deemed competent and one day was asked if I would mind firing because the booked fireman wasn't well. After that I was on the regular roster, such that it was.
I did have a verbal and practical exam to drive the 03. Called upon to bank the steam train that has slipped to a stand on a very damp day I charged up to it without anticipating that the brakes wouldn't work very well... Convinced I'd failed but apparently I displayed consummate skill in putting the 03 straight into third gear when she slipped in first and second.
Didn't do any trackside safety course other than being taught how to shunt and to raise a hand in acknowledgement if an approaching loco whistled.
No high viz until near the end of my stint, which we all grumbled about.
Quite enjoyed shunting too, jumping on and off the recessed step on the 03 on the move.
It was a different time.
All good fun but very lax from a modern point of view. I only nearly got killed once, but that's another story!

 

[ComUtoR]

Great story, thanks for sharing.

@theblackwatch I would agree there is more to the railway than Driving and the operational side. There is a certain pleasure in sharing your skills with others. I drive, so my interest would be into the driving grade. That's where my skills lie. I also have a background in retail management, so working in a shop is something I would have no problems with and something I'd be just as good at. However, I have no interest in anything else.

I'm sure there are engineers who love nothing more than tinkering with bits and bobs round the workshop and really don't want to play trains.

 

[trebor79]

Great story, thanks for sharing.

I'm sure there are engineers who love nothing more than tinkering with bits and bobs round the workshop and really don't want to play trains.

No worries.
And yes, the most engineering orientated guys tended not to drive very much if at all. Onedid the odd turn, another drove only in the yard and the most skilled engineer had absolutely no interest in ever touching a regulator.

 

[pdeaves]

Not sure if this is due to volunteer shortage, but there's no service on the Rushden and Higham Railway until further notice.

No, the ORR stopped operations until something is put right (don't know what).

 

[Llanigraham]

Do you have a steam license ? Can you go on the mainline ?

If it is anything like our line he will just have a card or book with his expertise noted in it, and it will ONLY apply to his line and no other.
I am "authorised" to drive our battery loco but certainly wouldn't be allowed to drive a similar loco on another line, perhaps unless I was under close supervision, and certainly not in a passenger carrying capacity.

 

[Tomnick]

Thanks for the answers. Not quite what I'm after but it does highlight the theme of the thread. Why must you start at the bottom and work your way up. There is no real need for it. 6yrs potentially to become a Driver is insane. It can take less than a year for a mainline qualification !

I'm genuinely interested how long the specific Driver/Guard training takes. Is there a minimum number of hours (like mainline) before you become qualified ? Is there a heritage equivalent of the rule book ? I can see that a minimum number of hours set over a few weekends a month could take a long while to qualify. Are there qualified steam train instructors ?

I can understand why there is a lack of volunteers if your forced to 'pay your dues' or work your way up from the bottom, and I can't see a genuine reason for it. Is there a glut in certain grades ?

I can't comment with tremendous knowledge on the footplate side, but we can and do get signalmen from virtually 'off the street' level to passed out to work at least one box in around eight months. That consists of an initial four classroom sessions, usually on alternate Sundays, to cover the basic stuff and the absolute block principles, followed by a period of rostered practical training mixed in with a further four classroom sessions to cover the more complicated stuff now that the basics have (hopefully) been well consolidated. For comparison, it took me about five or six months from start to finish to train as a signalman on the big railway - the crucial difference being that it was 35hrs/wk! We couldn't do it without expecting a lot of self-study and a decent interest in the subject.

We do have our own Rule Book, based loosely on the 1972 book but dragged into the modern era in some respects.

The footplate side, steam especially, I'd suggest that starting at the bottom - in a structured manner - helps the trainee to get a far more involved understanding of the inner workings of a loco. There's a lot to know, a lot that can go wrong, and a lot of bad things that can happen if it does go wrong - I really don't think that you can beat experience in that respect. There is an element of seniority too - cleaners and firemen are important, but I'd imagine that a decent majority in those grades are doing it with an eye to going driving in the end. It'd be enormously discouraging to have someone jump the queue, so to speak, when they're putting so much effort in. If there was a path straight to driving, I reckon they'd then struggle to fill the firing and cleaning rosters.

 

[Dave 5-5-5]

A lot of it comes down to the attitudes of some people in positions of power/seniority. I left my last heritage railway after I was kicked off the signalling rota for failing to appear for duty. Now as it happened I dropped 2 training shifts (my typical uptake was 20 shifts per annum) owing to work the previous year and then 2 training shifts because my mother passed away, they were notified in good time, and the shift after that was unlucky because I ended up being towed home after my car snapped a lower track arm on the front suspension, unavoidable and unexpected.
Despite the fact I'd changed jobs and could guarantee attendance, I was dismissed, by letter, and not even invited to the meeting to discuss issues. I also oddly failed the railway medical on hearing, despite passing a network rail one which is far more stringent.
Never the less, I moved to another railway and couldn't be more happier, the other volunteers are pleased to see you, the kettle is always on and everyone wants to chat.
Whilst a lot of railways are commercial enterprises, they fail to remember their volunteers are just that, not staff. When a staff member is placed in charge of volunteers, especially one with a Hitler complex, it will often end in tears. Even more so when obvious bullying goes unchecked.

The issue around drivers is often the length of time, a friend of mine wanted to become a diesel driver on heritage, but with their training systems in place, he'd have passed retirement by the time he passed out as a driver. As he was a mainline driver he did wonder why everyone has to start at the bottom, when technically he'd already done that for BR in the 80s. So that was a driver they lost. Spending 3 or 6 or 10 years at lower grades is fine if you're young enough, but they're pushing a lot of 40+ year olds, often people who didn't get chance to work on the main network away because of the attitude towards the "we have to be old BR"

 

[45669]

There isn't the same interest in railways generally as there used to be. The early preservationists tended to come from the train-spotting generation of the 50s and 60s, but these folks are now getting old or are no longer with us. How many youngsters do you see at the end of Platform 8 at King's Cross collecting train numbers nowadays? In my day there were loads of us...

 

[option]

I note that the Spa Valley Railway will not be operating tomorrow due to a shortage of volunteers. From its website at https://www.spavalleyrailway.co.uk/

Nor again on the 5th October, Saturday just gone. The notice is still on the front page of their website.

But, they are in a very expensive area, & quite a distance from anywhere where younger people could afford to live.