Should drugs be legalised?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Striker, 15 Jan 2011.

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  1. Geezertronic

    Geezertronic Established Member

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    Still stinks of crap and users smell of it way after they have smoked it. I don't know if there are any statistics to back up your claim though, I would suggest more is known about alcohol abuse than weed/cannabis abuse?


    I would be interested to find out whether pescribed cannabis has less of a stench than illegal cannabis/weed?
     
    Last edited: 16 Jan 2011
  2. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Do you have any evidence to back that up?
     
  3. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Alcohol causes liver damage, weed doesn't, it only causes you to lose brain cells and thus reduce reasoning, not causing brain damage, or a proper medical condition, and the fact that every short but frequent binges of alcohol can kill you, majajuana will, but will take a hell of a load longer to have drastic effects. Vapourising or eating pot will have health benefit, it significantly reliefs pain in small doses... In American in 2008, alcohol killed 75,000 people alone, how many did weed kill? 0.

    There is no difference between alcohol and weed, both do damage, but alcohol's is greater. the only reason weed is illegal in America (and those who have since followed suit) is because timber merchants were scared that a key source (which makes weed) was about to overtake wood as the chief ingridient of paper, so they started a hate campaign against it to get it banned.
     
  4. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    This paper here. Specifically this bar chart here. Wiki also has an interesting figure (using stats from this article) comparing physical harm with physical dependence of various drugs, see here.

    According to that research both Alcohol and Tobacco score higher in both harm and dependency than Cannabis.
     
  5. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Interesting that we can't actually read the study without paying $31.50!

    I think my previous point still stands. It's only because of the history of tobacco and alcohol that they are allowed now. If it was a new discovery, then it would be banned. However, just because something is less dangerous or more dangerous doesn't mean they shouldn't be banned.
     
  6. ainsworth74

    ainsworth74 Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Ahh, guess my uni has access to that website that the general public doesn't. Sorry! :oops:

    The link to wiki will still be good and it is based on figures in that paper.
     
  7. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Why not?

    If people want to do weed, crack, LSD, heroin etc, let them get on with it and leave 'em to it, but only if they use their own money and control themselves...
     
  8. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Wasn't a slight on you, just all the reasearch sites that want people to pay to find out information that affects them! :roll:
     
  9. kheggie

    kheggie Member

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    That is so true and the amount of money the government makes from the tax!
     
  10. depablo

    depablo Member

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    Some users also walk a fine line between what some consider normal and others would call a stoner. Socialwork take a dim view where children are concerned, ensuring the safety of the children takes a priority.
    Probably your right.
    Now thats a difficult one to answer, a lot of variables to consider.

    Anyway; street drugs destroy lives, especially Cannabis in its many forms.

    Incidently I do voluntary work with children and placed more with extended families / foster care due to the effects of Cannabis on someone's parenting skills. Usually leads to an inability by parents to ensure the kids safety and welfare needs are being met.
     
  11. theblackwatch

    theblackwatch Emeritus Moderator

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    And who pays when they end up in casualty. No pay, no treatment, leave to die?
     
  12. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    I wouldn't really have a problem with that, if you get yourself in a hole, you get yourself out, epople shouldn't think, 'Oh, if I OD, someone else [the NHS] will bail me out'.
     
  13. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    And you are seriously thinking that if we gave people free reign to class A, B and C drugs they would just use there own money and control themselves? They would be good little boys would they?
     
  14. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    you will never know unless it is tried... At a guess, up to 90% of people in places around East Lancs will have used them regularly for years, but they never have any problems with control...
     
  15. wintonian

    wintonian Established Member

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    I would have thought If you baked it to a Victoria sponge it wouldn't have much of a smell.

    Yes Children’s Services do take a dim view, but the authority I worked with generally took a holistic view when considering whether to invoke the Children’s Act, being fully aware that if you remove young people from their natural parentage it can do more harm than good and the risks need to be carefully weighed.
     
  16. theblackwatch

    theblackwatch Emeritus Moderator

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    And when some clown sues the government for making it legal and therefore encouraged/condoned its use and they suffered as a result of taking it through their own choice, who pays then?
     
  17. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    How naive. Of course there will be a problem with control. It'll be like putting up a sign saying 'free sweets' outside a school.

    So you are advocating a complete end to this Welfare state?
     
  18. 90019

    90019 Established Member

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    Any figures to back that up?
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Are you suggesting we get rid of the NHS and go for the American system instead?
     
  19. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    I would imagine he got it from here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6089353/ns/health-addictions/

    I think the deaths from cannabis statistic he, or someone else, is making up.

    Yet that is only linked deaths - i.e. not the substantial cause, or not proven. And was done in 2005.

    It's still only 0.02% of the population as well!
     
  20. 90019

    90019 Established Member

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    It's the cannabis figures I'm questioning, really :)
     
  21. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    See the second line! :)
     
  22. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    TBW, ralphchadkirk, 90019: I just feel that it should be legalised, let people do it if they want to, if they die from it, that's their fault, get over it, no compensation, it was their fault. Live with it. No ralph, I did not get those figures from your source, you cannot deny though that more people die per year from weed than alcohol.

    As for the school and sweet thing as a comparison, it isn't the same thing, and you know it.
     
  23. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Show me the evidence which you based your claim that no people in the USA died of cannabis in 2008. Or were you making it up?

    I would prefer to base legal decisions on more than a 'feeling'. Remember, "the law is reason free from passion".
     
  24. Tom B

    Tom B Established Member

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    By extension, should people who are injured in car crashes have to pay for their treatment? After all, they knew the risk! Should anyone who, in any way, could be blamed for their injuries have to pay?

    A few months ago I injured my hand in a foolish accident with a tool - I went to casualty and had it sorted. Should I have had to pay (again, since I've already paid through my NICs)?

    Or maybe you'd like to move to America? "Excuse me sir, if you *could* just stop dying for a minute and insert your card into the chip&pin device..."
     
  25. MidnightFlyer

    MidnightFlyer Veteran Member

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    Nope drugs and alcohol only. Some people who use drugs know that if they OD etc, they will always be helped, and it must cost this country millions every year. In most cases, there is little you can do to prevent car crashes/tool injuries, whereas with drugs/alcohol, 100% of the time it is about self control.
     
  26. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    Most studies are like that, I'm afraid. You're not really supposed to pay that ever; most people who need it will be able to access it through their university or through their work.

    Many have suggested on here that alcohol and tobacco are legal and that, consequently, other drugs should be legalised. I for one am wholly against this. Alcohol and Tobacco are hardly public health success stories. There have been countless studies undertaken which clearly show that, not only are the substances potentially damaging to the body, they also cause widespread social problems. As I alluded to earlier, alcoholics and heavy smokers don't simply drop dead 20 years earlier than everyone else. They tend to die long, lingering deaths from diseases such as Bronchial Carcinoma, COPD/COAD, Hepatocellular Carcinoma and Korsakoff's Psychosis.

    Alcohol is without a doubt the best example of this, with £2.25 million spent per annum on the costs of alcohol abuse in Scotland alone.[1] The study also shows that the bulk of this loss is through the wider economic costs and social costs, with "only" £405 million pounds spent through the NHS. There's policing, social work, and of course the costs associated with additional days off work to factor into this equation.

    Similarly, tobacco costs the NHS in Scotland £400m per annum.[2] There are also further costs to the economy due to sick days. The cost to the individual is huge as well; should someone smoke 20 Marlboro cigarettes per day (at £6.42/pack [3]), they will be paying £2,343.30 this year. And given that the prevalence of smoking is much greater in more deprived areas[4], it's obviously going to hit someone in Easterhouse/Peckham proportionately harder than it will hit someone in Milngavie/Kensington.

    There is no doubt that the current costs of illegal drug abuse are much lower, because the drugs themselves are much less widely available and therefore abuse of these substances is much less prevalent. Still, drugs cost Scotland £2.6bn per annum.[5] In comparison to alcohol, there is clearly a greater cost per user. Whilst this is likely to reflect increased policing costs associated with "the war on drugs", there's also the costs to the individual, the costs to society as a whole, and the health implications arising directly from these drugs and from, for example, needle sharing, that simply will not go away with legalisation.

    There is also strong public support (in Scotland anyway) for drugs to remain banned. Whilst some use is fairly widespread (with a third of people surveyed admitting to trying Cannabis at least once), support for any legalisation is much lower. Similarly, there has been a trend towards increased support for tougher penalties. [5] When the public is becoming more and more resistant to drug abuse and any attempts at legalisation, any government would be foolish to legislate for a more liberal policy.

    If currently illegal drugs were to be legalised, there is no doubt in my mind that the associated costs would shoot up (if you'll pardon the pun). Yes, you'll save a lot of money on policing, and you'll make a lot of money through taxation. But you'll also be opening more people up to the issues associated with these drugs; the physical, mental and social issues. And all in all, it's these things that will add up to be yet another drain on valuable public resources.

    References
    [1] http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/222103/0059736.pdf - Scottish Government publication: "Costs of Alcohol Use and Misuse in Scotland", 2008
    [2]http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Health/health/Tobacco - Scottish Government information page on Tobacco
    [3]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/retailandconsumer/8246377/Tobacco-facts-ten-things-to-know-about-smoking.html "Tobacco facts: ten things to know about smoking", Daily Telegraph, 8th Jan 2011
    [4]http://www.ash.org.uk/current-policy-issues/health-inequalities/smoking-and-health-inequalities ASH Scotland information page: "Smoking and health inequalities"
    [5]http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2010/05/19111419/0 Scottish Government publication: "Scottish Social Attitudes Survey 2009: Public Attitudes to Drugs and Drug Use in Scotland"


    PS: Much of this is Scottish data, but that's what I'm used to dealing with. Sorry. Undoubtedly a similar trend can be seen in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is important, however, to remember that Scotland does have bigger problems than England and Wales with smoking, alcohol abuse and illegal drug abuse.

    PPS: Sorry for taking so much of your time! I appreciate that a lot of this is dry data, but looking through the thread there seems to be a lot of demand for raw hard statistics. ;)
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Please tell me you didn't watch Legally Blonde tonight :lol:
     
  27. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Please don't tell me you did! No, I just know that quote.
     
  28. me123

    me123 Established Member

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    My Dad was watching it (don't ask...) and I just walked in at the point where they used that quote. I actually thought t might be interesting. The penny dropped when I saw Reese Witherspoon.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    I've found a nice Danish study (click here, but you have to pay unless you get it through your uni/work) which clearly shows that mortality increases for all the substances they've looked at, including cannabis and ecstasy.
     
  29. ralphchadkirk

    ralphchadkirk Established Member

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    Still can't get to it. Oh well!

    I'm still interested to know where MattE got his figures from.
     
  30. Freakofnature

    Freakofnature Member

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    I don't think 'all' drugs should be legalised.


    If someone is recieving a supply of said drug from their GP's or a Café as they have in Amsterdam, they become dependant on it, and then can't find anywhere to get the drug from?


    Crime would increase and so would hospital admissions increasing the cost of care for treating the complications which arise with said drugs. as has been said by me123.


    Cannabis however I think should be legalised. Sure it can cause paranoia and mental health issues when used heavily, but it has a history (not as long as) alcohol and tobacco, and so many people are using it today that it is stupid to think that anyone can actually enforce such a law.


    You don't need to read the whole study me123 has linked you to, you should be able to see the information given in the abstract regarding drug mortalities.
     
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