Should freight trains be held during peak hours?

[Samuel88]

Just now there have been three freight services passing though my local station, they slow down running on the line, which means that my train is constantly late. Should freight trains be held in sidings between the hours of 6-10AM and 3-7PM?

 

[sw1ller]

...no

 

[Aictos]

No because it means them missing their paths elsewhere which means them running earlier or later.

 

[Samuel88]

...no

Why not?

 

[hexagon789]

Just now there have been three freight services passing though my local station, they slow down running on the line, which means that my train is constantly late. Should freight trains be held in sidings between the hours of 6-10AM and 3-7PM?

I think that would be unworkable.

 

[The Planner]

Why are they slowing it down, are they late? but in answer to your question, no, where are you going to hold them?

 

[sw1ller]

You want to take 7 hours of freight train movements and put them somewhere else or some other time.

The railway can’t take movements 24hours a day as a regular thing due to maintenance.

You also assume freight is less important than passengers.

It’s completely impractical and you’d end up with 1000’s more lorries on the roads. While this might be good for unemployment, it would cripple the road network.

It’s just not feesable.

 

[theblackwatch]

The freight trains are pathed so they do not interfere with your train. Providing all are on time, then freights should not delay your service. If you were to advise where/when these freight trains were, there is probably someone with the relevant knowledge who could explain the cause of any delays (for example - the freights may have been delayed by a late running passenger train).

 

[Samuel88]

You want to take 7 hours of freight train movements and put them somewhere else or some other time.

The railway can’t take movements 24hours a day as a regular thing due to maintenance.

You also assume freight is less important than passengers.

It’s completely impractical and you’d end up with 1000’s more lorries on the roads. While this might be good for unemployment, it would cripple the road network.

It’s just not feesable.

Well frieght is less important, at least when it comes down to time. Freight doesn't have to be in time for work, school, hospital appointments. I'm not advocating banishing freight to the roads, merely not having it clogging up the railway during peak hours!

 

[Samuel88]

The freight trains are pathed so they do not interfere with your train. Providing all are on time, then freights should not delay your service. If you were to advise where/when these freight trains were, there is probably someone with the relevant knowledge who could explain the cause of any delays (for example - the freights may have been delayed by a late running passenger train).

West Drayton

 

[Saperstein]

Well frieght is less important, at least when it comes down to time

Some of it is, food? Mail? It already takes some freight services the best part of a day to do its journey, under your suggestion it could take weeks.

It wouldn’t be long before trains we’re backed up across the network!

 

[Darandio]

Well frieght is less important, at least when it comes down to time. Freight doesn't have to be in time for work, school, hospital appointments. I'm not advocating banishing freight to the roads, merely not having it clogging up the railway during peak hours!

A lot of freight is time sensitive.

 

[The Planner]

Well frieght is less important, at least when it comes down to time. Freight doesn't have to be in time for work, school, hospital appointments. I'm not advocating banishing freight to the roads, merely not having it clogging up the railway during peak hours!

Wrong, Intermodal especially is constrained by end customer and by terminal times at ports etc...

 

[Darandio]

I also cannot see any evidence of three recent freight trains either. Unless i'm looking in the wrong place.

 

[DarloRich]

Just now there have been three freight services passing though my local station, they slow down running on the line, which means that my train is constantly late. Should freight trains be held in sidings between the hours of 6-10AM and 3-7PM?

Why not?

This might be a shock: the contents of tbe freight trains might be more important and more time critical than you

 

[DarloRich]

Well frieght is less important, at least when it comes down to time. Freight doesn't have to be in time for work, school, hospital appointments. I'm not advocating banishing freight to the roads, merely not having it clogging up the railway during peak hours!

Yes - my previous statement WILL be a shock for you!

 

[tiptoptaff]

A lot of intermodal freight is pathed for 75moh, which, shockingly, is also the speed a lot of local trains are pathed at. 142/143/150/153/156 are all 75mph max, and I'm sure there's more than that

 

[Samuel88]

This might be a shock: the contents of tbe freight trains might be more important and more time critical than you

To me as an individual yes, freight is more important, but to tens of thousands of fare paying passengers who are at their wits end?

 

[GB]

I am sure you will find most regions have a no freight policy during certain peak hours in certain directions. Most freight also works on a slot based policy so if its late to terminal by however much it might not get unloaded and/or reloaded.

 

[DarloRich]

To me as an individual yes, freight is more important, but to tens of thousands of fare paying passengers who are at their wits end?

Still yes, for all kinds of reasons from money to operational considerations.

BTW which station were you at?

 

[tbtc]

Just now there have been three freight services passing though my local station

I've no idea of your local station, so can't really comment, but there are some examples of freight services that cause gaps in rush hour passenger services - for example IIRC there's a fifteen minute break in the eastbound North London Line (e.g. 17:30-17:45 at Camden Road) - I presume that it's for this service >> http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R22107/2019/06/20/advanced

...which is a huge gap in the "every five minute" peak service on the NLL, so causes the next eastbound service to be rather busy (with knock on effects).

But I don't know what the alternative is - whilst I'd like a simple Metro network of frequent passenger trains at rush hour, that freight may be something time sensitive that can't be shifted back/forwards an hour or two (there's also the issue that the North London Line is still going to be a busy route an hour earlier/later, so there's probably never going to be an ideal time to disrupt things!).

 

[Taunton]

Before we say it's impractical/impossible, the old Southern Region a generation ago used to do EXACTLY THIS. Embargo hours were much as described, morning and evening peaks. And there was more freight around then.

Nowadays I'm regularly at Lewisham at 16.30 on a Friday afternoon. An empty stone hopper freight comes through the substantial multi-scissors junction there which is such a pinch point for suburban passenger services just at that time, off the Nunhead line and slowly through the station. Seems surprising, bearing in mind those old rules.

 

[PeterC]

I remember when an employer of mine had mandatory warehouse visits for back office staff. I was amazed at the amount of empty space. A lot of goods weren't stored, they arrived, were sorted and out again within hours with a lot of the volume being unused for much of the day and full for the rest.

You don't mess with "just in time" deliveries.

 

[4F89]

If it wasn't for freight, the railways wouldn't exist in the first place.....

 

[plarailfan]

I can see your point about fare paying passengers being at their wits end, Samuel88.
It is quite possible that the passenger trains are running late and the freight trains are keeping to their schedule and sadly, to the rail user, when the passenger train eventually does arrive at the platform, it may well appear that the freight train has caused delays and in fact, I have known rail workers blame freight services for delaying passenger trains, when the true reason for delay may have been a fire near the railway, maybe a tree on the line, or a crime, that is still under investigation and the full story is not available to rail staff.
Many parts of the railway network are severely congested and tracks, station platforms, etc, are full to their capacity within the safety and signalling restraints and so, all in all, it's a difficult nut to crack !
Freight trains may be carrying urgent medical supplies to docks and ports, to meet up with ships, while Royal mail post and parcels trains, are a vital part of the next day delivery logistics and so, I'm afraid there's no easy answer, or solution to your dilemma at the moment.

 

[Taunton]

Freight trains may be carrying urgent medical supplies to docks and ports.

How can medical supplies going to a docks for export be regarded as in any way "urgent". If they were urgent and being exported overseas they would go by air freight.

 

[BRblue]

How can medical supplies going to a docks for export be regarded as in any way "urgent". If they were urgent and being exported overseas they would go by air freight.

I suppose this comes down to how you interpret "urgent".
As posted above, intermodel work can be very time sensitive.
Containers that are boat catchers are exactly that... if the train is late those containers miss the boat. Container ships run to a very tight schedule and will very rarely wait.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I was on a train yesterday that got held up by a freight train. Did it bother me? I figured that it was easier (operationally) to let the freight continue as it was (slow) moving rather than halt it at a red signal to let my train go. How long does it take to restart a loco pulling tons of heavy stone? Much easier just to let it run on. My train was only delayed by about 3min and I'm sure it made up time later down the line

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

I was on a train yesterday that got held up by a freight train. Did it bother me? I figured that it was easier (operationally) to let the freight continue as it was (slow) moving rather than halt it at a red signal to let my train go. How long does it take to restart a loco pulling tons of heavy stone? Much easier just to let it run on. My train was only delayed by about 3min and I'm sure it made up time later down the line

Exactly right. Both the length and weight of most freight trains mean that once they leave their start point it is best to keep them moving at least until they reach any booked "holding" point. And detailed examination of Real Timestrains (aka RTT on here) will also reveal that there are occasions when freights most definitely do wait for passenger trains: the WCML is a good place to look for this. But such waits are generally built into the planned schedules. As other posters have said the apparent conflicts between passenger and freight trains tend to arise only because an individual train somewhere is running out of course for whatever reason. It should also follow that since passenger trains are very much in the majority they are far more likely to be the original source of delays than freights.

 

[Clip]

Before we say it's impractical/impossible, the old Southern Region a generation ago used to do EXACTLY THIS. Embargo hours were much as described, morning and evening peaks. And there was more freight around then.

And guess where all that freight went? Onto the roads because it wasnt allowed to be transported by rail at a time that suited it. And thats why there isnt much freight around now compared to then.