aspierail
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Do you think other cities in the UK should have driverless trains which are similar to the DLR or not.
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Should other cities have driverless systems similar to DLR?
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DaveNewcastle
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I'm unable to come up with any reason why any English City 'should' have any particular mode of public transport.
Its much easier to identify reasons why some modes 'should not' be introduced in some cities, due to geography, infrastructure, demand, and many other quantifiable factors.
I'd expect that there are cost/benefit ratio advantages to planned transport schemes, but as we know, schemes can be introduced with poor CBRs just as some with high CBRs are not implemented - but of course that applies to other nations and not just to England. Perhaps you were particularly trying to avoid the debates over Edinburgh Trams and the GARL by confining your enquiry to England?
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The reply above was in response to a different question (which the OP has subsequently changed by editing). It originally asked "Do you think other English cities should have trains similar to DLR?".
Now that the question is different, much of my response, above, becomes a non sequitur. However, I remain unable to find any reason why any city "should" have any particular mode of transport, and specifically now that the new question asks about driverless trains, I'm unable to find any reason why a city "should" introduce driverless trains. In fact, its highly probable that there is no possible argument to compel a city to adopt driverless trains, until or unless that city becomes uninhabitable and the trains are providing a utility function (e.g. transfer of toxic waste).
Its much easier to identify reasons why some modes 'should not' be introduced in some cities, due to geography, infrastructure, demand, and many other quantifiable factors.
I'd expect that there are cost/benefit ratio advantages to planned transport schemes, but as we know, schemes can be introduced with poor CBRs just as some with high CBRs are not implemented - but of course that applies to other nations and not just to England. Perhaps you were particularly trying to avoid the debates over Edinburgh Trams and the GARL by confining your enquiry to England?
- - - - EDIT - - - -
The reply above was in response to a different question (which the OP has subsequently changed by editing). It originally asked "Do you think other English cities should have trains similar to DLR?".
Now that the question is different, much of my response, above, becomes a non sequitur. However, I remain unable to find any reason why any city "should" have any particular mode of transport, and specifically now that the new question asks about driverless trains, I'm unable to find any reason why a city "should" introduce driverless trains. In fact, its highly probable that there is no possible argument to compel a city to adopt driverless trains, until or unless that city becomes uninhabitable and the trains are providing a utility function (e.g. transfer of toxic waste).
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WatcherZero
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Also in what way do you mean similar?
Do you mean built on viaducts or driverless? If your refering to the vehicles themselves then at least for the B07/B09 stock they do as their the Flexity Swift tram used in Manchester with a different bodyshell.
Do you mean built on viaducts or driverless? If your refering to the vehicles themselves then at least for the B07/B09 stock they do as their the Flexity Swift tram used in Manchester with a different bodyshell.
I think the original DLR network worked because by and large, it was built in to and alongside the neighbouring development at the time, creating minimal disruption and demolition. I struggle to think of any other major British city where getting a segregated railway into the city centre wouldn't either require demolition and disruption (to get it to run above ground), or the high cost (to get it to run below ground) unless it were to take over existing corridors. Therefore, a tramway would perhaps be a better solution, as it can run on-road where space does not exist for a wholly separate alignment.
Also some parts were built on railway infrastructre that was already there in essence.
I think an elevated railway in itself into cities wouldnt cause that much disruption due to ereceting the pylons then popping the trackbed in pre-fab blocks could be done over night when its quieter.
Im just not sure that any other city would have the demand for such an elevated railway.
WatcherZero
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Most other cities already have elevated railways with the original Victorian viaducts still intact.
Ivo
Established Member
You also have to think about undulations in the land. Where distinct hills are present it's much more efficient to build even tunnels, never mind ground-level tracks. Cities such as Bristol and Sheffield would find an elevated system a very costly and difficult thing to build.
It's worth remembering though that the DLR wasn't the first overhead system in the UK, as many people seem to think it is. That honour, to my knowledge anyway, would go to the Liverpool Overhead Railway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Having noticed that the subject of the original post has changed, I think there *may* be some scope for it, and would even go as far as to propose a short subterranean system in Bristol to trial it. All it would need is something simple like this:
Temple Meads (50ch) Cabot Circus (29ch) Broad Street (44ch) Triangle
Total Distance: 1mi 43ch
I haven't stayed to existing roads for this; if I had, the overall distance would be nearer 1mi 60ch. If it can work in Copenhagen (on a larger circular route), why can't it work on such a simple route in Bristol?
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150001
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I believe Birmingham needs some sort of proper metro system, like the Stuttgart U bahn. I think we need to follow the German example, who have a excellent high speed ICE system with most major cities having a well developed and organised transport system, including the buses. I think in the major cities such as Birmingham and Cardiff we need a well organised and extensive transport system like Stuttgart or London to get people out of their cars.
Where would you put it? The geography of Birmingham is not especially amenable to metros.
johnnychips
Established Member
Transferring people quite slowly round holiday camps and theme parks?
(The experience in Springfield bodes ill for future schemes)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQz_lqOBhZA&feature=related
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Well, if we're talking about 'loosely similar' (something like the Tyne & Wear Metro is losely similar to the DLR) then I'd say it's a good idea in places which have lost much of their suburban network. Before the trams, Edinburgh would have been a good example, with the suburban line and the old lines out to Leith being linked up (see this map from 1905 and imagine what a few connections between the networks could do). The problems there would be interfacing with freight going around the suburban line and finding an additional route to get between Haymarket and Portobello, which might mean street-running, and we now know the chaos that can generate. Branches out to Musselburgh and the airport would be inevitable.
The thing is, most places in Britain have retained most of their heavy-rail suburban network, albeit somewhat rationalised. Some major sections are no longer in existence, the Liverpool Overhead Railway for one, just imagine that being part of Merseyrail today, it could have been plugged in at both ends (with some expenditure in a new curve). Shutting them down for light rail conversion, as happened with the T&WM, might be semi-practical, but would cause a lot of disruption. Bits are happening, look at the Oldham Loop for instance, but not on such a grand scale. For example, maybe Leeds would benefit from having Ilkley, Harrogate, Pontefract and some Bradford services moved from 'in' to 'under' the station, but it's highly unlikely.
The thing is, most places in Britain have retained most of their heavy-rail suburban network, albeit somewhat rationalised. Some major sections are no longer in existence, the Liverpool Overhead Railway for one, just imagine that being part of Merseyrail today, it could have been plugged in at both ends (with some expenditure in a new curve). Shutting them down for light rail conversion, as happened with the T&WM, might be semi-practical, but would cause a lot of disruption. Bits are happening, look at the Oldham Loop for instance, but not on such a grand scale. For example, maybe Leeds would benefit from having Ilkley, Harrogate, Pontefract and some Bradford services moved from 'in' to 'under' the station, but it's highly unlikely.
anthony263
Established Member
There was talk of a monerail line being privately funded being built in Cardiff (I remember putting a thread about in on this forum) and well that has gone very quiet.
I wouldnt mind a light rail system being built in Swansea running from Mumbles through the city centre to perhaps Amazon & Fabian way where there is expected to be some large developments over the next few years.
Maybe running like a tram to the civic centre/county hall in Swansea then running over a elavated section around by Tesco so that there isnt too much disruption to the main road around that area and then returning to ground level somewhere near the SA1/Swansea docks
That reminds me of something, but since I don't know the area, I'm not sure how much of the route is left.
http://www.welshwales.co.uk/mumbles_railway_swansea.htm
anthony263
Established Member
most of the route is now a cyclepath which I suppose could be re-used if the go head is ever given to re-build the mumbles railway as a tram route.
In fact I think it would be a very good tourist attraction and would help cut down on the amount of cars driving down the main road from Swansea to Oystermouth
In fact I think it would be a very good tourist attraction and would help cut down on the amount of cars driving down the main road from Swansea to Oystermouth
There has been talk, campaigns and proposals to build a tram line, monorail and just about anything you can imagine on the rout eof the old Mumble sRailway for the 40 or so years that I can remember. But it seems as far away as ever :cry:
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