Should restrictions be eased fully if Indian Variant case rates do not decline before June 21st?

[brad465]

I've cleared my work diary on Monday in case the delay looks to be reality (we will know by Sunday). I will be peacefully joining the march on Downing St if that is the case, which will be the first protest I'll have joined in my 36 years of life.

I genuinely think if the planned relaxations don't happen on Monday, and no firm commitment on the rest of them being relaxed, we will be stuck in this limbo for a long long time, at least well into 2022. And if so I really fear for the economy, the NHS's long term viability, and the nation's mental health.

Is that an official march or one not yet organised but you foresee happening if a delay is announced? (I ask as I'm genuinely not aware of any protests/marches planned)

 

[kristiang85]

Is that an official march or one not yet organised but you foresee happening if a delay is announced? (I ask as I'm genuinely not aware of any protests/marches planned)

There is one doing the rounds on social media, I'm not sure by whom though. Even if it's not organised, it seems a lot of people are going to Downing St area to show their displeasure if there is a delay, which is what needs to be seen.

The icing on the cake is seeing Boris and the leaders on their little jolly in Cornwall with no quarantine or anything; it is quite clear we are not in the grips of a deadly virus in this country that necessitates putting whole industries at risk of going out of business.

 

[Class 33]

I'm fairly certain now that Johnson will go for a 4 week/month delay. He's probably been swayed by bloody Whitty and Vallance into making this decision. I for one am absolutely DREADING this being announced on Monday, or confirmed by the press and media on Sunday night. To be this close now - just 10 days, from all(or most) restrictions at long last ending, and then for this to be taken away from us and it becomes another 4 weeks/a month we have to endure this and then no guarantee that there won't be another delay again for some stupid reasons, this is just all too much. This is mental torture for many people, including myself. I can't take much more of this. Many are mentally drained by having to endure all this for 15 months now. This just can't go on any longer. This has to end ASAP.

If this 4 week/month delay does go ahead, I really hope there will be absolute uproar about this, to show Johnson we have absolutely had enough of all this.

 

[brad465]

There is one doing the rounds on social media, I'm not sure by whom though. Even if it's not organised, it seems a lot of people are going to Downing St area to show their displeasure if there is a delay, which is what needs to be seen.

The icing on the cake is seeing Boris and the leaders on their little jolly in Cornwall with no quarantine or anything; it is quite clear we are not in the grips of a deadly virus in this country that necessitates putting whole industries at risk of going out of business.

Yes there are plenty of pictures of them all enjoying the surroundings and the beach already, I expect more will follow, and I'd like to think for many seeing this and then being told full freedom is being delayed by nigh on a month will not sit well with them.

 

[bramling]

I'm fairly certain now that Johnson will go for a 4 week/month delay. He's probably been swayed by bloody Whitty and Vallance into making this decision. I for one am absolutely DREADING this being announced on Monday, or confirmed by the press and media on Sunday night. To be this close now - just 10 days, from all(or most) restrictions at long last ending, and then for this to be taken away from us and it becomes another 4 weeks/a month we have to endure this and then no guarantee that there won't be another delay again for some stupid reasons, this is just all too much. This is mental torture for many people, including myself. I can't take much more of this. Many are mentally drained by having to endure all this for 15 months now. This just can't go on any longer. This has to end ASAP.

If this 4 week/month delay does go ahead, I really hope there will be absolute uproar about this, to show Johnson we have absolutely had enough of all this.

I’m not sure where will be uproar, things seem to be compartmentalised into a few groups now
* an increasing mass of people for whom normal life has essentially resumed, give or take the odd Perspex screen or mask when they can be bothered to put it on
* the genuinely terrified who are now a very small contingent
* those pursuing the specific agenda of attempting to continue working from home for as long as they can swing, so will be pushing for “restrictions” but not actually taking notice of any restrictions apart from the one which says they shouldn’t return to the office
* business owners who continue to be crucified by all this

Only the last of these has a sufficiently vested interest to make trouble I suspect, and they’re only a small cohort. There would by now have been trouble if we still had lockdown restrictions like stay at home, but with most people now able to do a reasonable range of things there isn’t quite the urge to push further.

I’m in mid-Wales at the moment and barring the signs on every shop front door and a few Perspex screens here and there (which most people seem to be subconsciously moving to the side of now), you wouldn’t really know there was anything abnormal about life.

 

[Jonny]

Is that an official march or one not yet organised but you foresee happening if a delay is announced? (I ask as I'm genuinely not aware of any protests/marches planned)

I'm not aware of anything official or quasi-official that is planned (I got Telegram because that's where the groups are, and there are no announcements of anything before the 26th), but I would expect that a lot of people would be heading to their nearest city centre to express their displeasure. The potential for something bad to happen spontaneously is there, due to the weather (assuming that the forecast holds), as you said in a previous post. Interesting would be an understatement.

 

[davews]

People not only have had enough they are now disregarding everything. Nice walk up in London yesterday (Hampstead Heath etc). People go out of their way and help you when you get lost and just want to stop and have a chat. No sign of SD anywhere. Had it not been for masks on the trains and some half hearted attempt at SD in them you wouldn't have known anything was going on.

 

[Simon11]

I'm fairly certain now that Johnson will go for a 4 week/month delay. He's probably been swayed by bloody Whitty and Vallance into making this decision. I for one am absolutely DREADING this being announced on Monday, or confirmed by the press and media on Sunday night. To be this close now - just 10 days, from all(or most) restrictions at long last ending, and then for this to be taken away from us and it becomes another 4 weeks/a month we have to endure this and then no guarantee that there won't be another delay again for some stupid reasons, this is just all too much. This is mental torture for many people, including myself. I can't take much more of this. Many are mentally drained by having to endure all this for 15 months now. This just can't go on any longer. This has to end ASAP.

If this 4 week/month delay does go ahead, I really hope there will be absolute uproar about this, to show Johnson we have absolutely had enough of all this.

I don't understand why there has been no challenge from the media (or anyone here) to only consider delaying lockdown for the Manchester, Blackburn and Bolton area. One look at this map https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map and it appears majority of the cases in England are from there.

Why should communities which have been following the rules over the last few months, kept their rates low have to continually face restriction and lose summer! There is no benefit for us....

 

[Tracked]

Saw the post up thread about the change with the Died From/With numbers, I was thinking it would be useful to expand on the three Cases/Hospitalisations/Deaths figures we usually see in the news to show vaccine status (where known) as well for clarity. Last time I looked Hospitalisations and Deaths didn't seem to have increased drastically in the Delta/India strain hotspots, I remember seeing a few reports about some/all of them being among unvaccinated people, it would have been good - from an "encourage people to get vaccinated" viewpoint - to have official numbers to confirm.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I don't understand why there has been no challenge from the media (or anyone here) to only consider delaying lockdown for the Manchester, Blackburn and Bolton area. One look at this map https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map and it appears majority of the cases in England are from there.

Why should communities which have been following the rules over the last few months, kept their rates low have to continually face restriction and lose summer! There is no benefit for us....

I don't think it's fair to blame those communities where rates have increased though. Just before the cases there went through the roof, I visited parts of Lancashire including Colne, Burnley, Clitheroe, and Preston - all of which have seen their figures quadruple since I was there (and virtually all of which have now hit 200 weekly cases per 100,000 people). It certainly didn't feel like compliance was poor - in fact it was much better than in Carlisle, which currently has an extremely low number of cases.

It could be different in the likes of Blackburn (which I deliberately avoided on my trip) or Bolton, or it could have changed in the intervening few weeks. But I wouldn't assume so.The reasons for the spike in infections are varied - to do with people's ability to self isolate, vaccination rates, the types of housing found locally, and the amount of the variant which was brought from India. I'm uncomfortable with this idea we should blame towns (or punish them) for their infection rates.

 

[Simon11]

I'm uncomfortable with this idea we should blame towns (or punish them) for their infection rates.

So you would be even more uncomfortable if we punish the whole country instead, rather than a few towns?

 

[yorksrob]

I don't think that there's anything to be gained from dissappearing down the rabbit hole of punishing communities with higher levels of multi-generational households and traditional manufacturing (which is what most of the hot spot areas are).

We need to move away from the whole concept of "punishing" communities for undertaking everyday human activities and let the vaccines do their work.

The medical profession needs to be weened off of its addition to non-clinical restrictions altogether.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

If there is a delay of 2 or 4 weeks, or longer, then you can bet your bottom dollar that by time the next review comes due there will be concerns about the next Variant of Concern and we will need to stay with some restrictions just a little bit longer to give time for the data to come through.

And then there will be some other concern after that so restrictions will need to remain just a little bit longer after that just to be sure.

Some posters have rightly commented above that actually many things are pretty normal right now and in many cases you would hardly notice anything different to the old normal. This is true, to be fair. However, for me - and many others, including business owners - the continued rules around hospitality are the biggest problem. For me it is nigh on impossible to just spontaneously pop out for a pint or a meal either on my own or meeting people - there is a constant worry about booking tables, will there be space etc. For business owners, the reduced capacity and increased staffing costs associated with table service etc is crippling and needs to end now if many are to survive.

And of course visitor attractions and venues restricting numbers and requiring pre booking is also a particular pain as going anywhere or doing anything requires military planning and timekeeping and removes most spontaneity and decision making based on weather or other variable factors.

 

[nlogax]

those pursuing the specific agenda of attempting to continue working from home for as long as they can swing, so will be pushing for “restrictions” but not actually taking notice of any restrictions apart from the one which says they shouldn’t return to the office

Not quite that simple. Millions of people still won't be able to go into offices because their employers won't necessarily reopen when the WFH guidance officially ends. Meanwhile many offices are having small fortunes being spent on them to be reconfigured for post-pandemic working patterns - fewer permanent desks, more hotdesks etc.

Personally, given the option I'd have gone back months ago but that option just isn't available to me.

 

[Pete_uk]

A quote from Sky News

(I'm on mobile and can't 'quote')

"Another expert urging caution is Jim McManus, vice-president of the Association of Directors of Public Health.

He has warned the plan to complete the final stage of England's roadmap out of lockdown should be pushed back.

Going ahead could risk creating new variants and undermine the progress made through mass vaccinations, he suggested.

He also joined Professor Michie (see previous post) in suggested saying people should keep wearing face masks for the foreseeable future."

 

[kristiang85]

Not quite that simple. Millions of people still won't be able to go into offices because their employers won't necessarily reopen when the WFH guidance officially ends. Meanwhile many offices are having small fortunes being spent on them to be reconfigured for post-pandemic working patterns - fewer permanent desks, more hotdesks etc.

Personally, given the option I'd have gone back months ago but that option just isn't available to me.

Indeed. We've been told to continue working from home until September (partly due to office renovations, likely for this new way of working). I've been given access as I requested it, but it is certainly discouraged.

 

[Yew]

He also joined Professor Michie (see previous post) in suggested saying people should keep wearing face masks for the foreseeable future."

Excellent, the more people come out and say that, the less the public will trust them

Going ahead could risk creating new variants and undermine the progress made through mass vaccinations, he suggested.

I thought the rationale for travel restrictions was that variants came in from abroad? Surely the admission that they can develop here blows that out of the water .

 

[nlogax]

Indeed. We've been told to continue working from home until September (partly due to office renovations, likely for this new way of working). I've been given access as I requested it, but it is certainly discouraged.

Yeah September here too. I also requested access but was turned down - a uniform 'nope' to all staff regardless of role.

 

[bengley]

Local lockdowns don't work. What has worked for Bolton is the surge vaccinations. That's how this should be dealt with, not lockdowns

 

[yorksrob]

Excellent, the more people come out and say that, the less the public will trust them

I thought the rationale for travel restrictions was that variants came in from abroad? Surely the admission that they can develop here blows that out of the water .

At the same time, former PM Theresa May is pointing out that the country is currently closed for business and that we can't shut down for every varient, so if we do adopt a less cautious approach to foreign travel, there's absolutely no justification for maintaining restrictions at home.

I'm one of those who's not been too fussed about masks and treated them as a precautionary measure, however I have no intention complying with them 'indefinately'. I will be ditching them once the vaccination programme is complete, whatever Michie and the rest of the communist sympathisers say.

 

[PHILIPE]

At the same time, former PM Theresa May is pointing out that the country is currently closed for business and that we can't shut down for every varient, so if we do adopt a less cautious approach to foreign travel, there's absolutely no justification for maintaining restrictions at home.

I'm one of those who's not been too fussed about masks and treated them as a precautionary measure, however I have no intention complying with them 'indefinately'. I will be ditching them once the vaccination programme is complete, whatever Michie and the rest of the communist sympathisers say.

With the current action that is being taken this could go on ad infinitum. When the North West figures have come down and under control to what extent do we open up. This infection is with us in the same way as flu which we live with but the manner in which COVID is being treated does seem to go over the top at times. As long as it in circulation a new variant could raise it's head at any time so do we lock down and go into panic and doom and gloom mode every time. Mrs May is right.

 

[Bishopstone]

Yeah September here too. I also requested access but was turned down - a uniform 'nope' to all staff regardless of role.

My office closed in April, so now it’s permanent WFH unless I have customer or internal physical meetings. This will give the ‘skiving at home!’ cynics something to moan about, long after Covid is gone.

Even if I was able to return to an office, I note that a large number of TOCs have staff shortages; rolling stock shortages; industrial action; thin timetables or advice (Greater Anglia) not to travel in the peak hours, so they don’t really want mass commuting back before the autumn, do they?

Anyway, back to my emails and ‘Homes under the Hammer’.

 

[bramling]

Not quite that simple. Millions of people still won't be able to go into offices because their employers won't necessarily reopen when the WFH guidance officially ends. Meanwhile many offices are having small fortunes being spent on them to be reconfigured for post-pandemic working patterns - fewer permanent desks, more hotdesks etc.

Personally, given the option I'd have gone back months ago but that option just isn't available to me.

I agree it isn’t a mainstream attitude. There’s certainly an interesting disparity in attitudes - London feels like people have got back to normal, likewise here in rural Wales you wouldn’t really know there was anything abnormal. But at home in Hertfordshire it’s anything but. I can only attribute this to the “Home Counties commuter” types.

 

[brad465]

* business owners who continue to be crucified by all this

Only the last of these has a sufficiently vested interest to make trouble I suspect, and they’re only a small cohort. There would by now have been trouble if we still had lockdown restrictions like stay at home, but with most people now able to do a reasonable range of things there isn’t quite the urge to push further.

This group may not cause civil unrest, their closure/restrictions can cause a lot of noise/headaches for the Government though, especially via Tory backbenchers looking out for their interests and/or supporting freedom generally. They've largely been quiet since the roadmap was announced and it's following to time so far, any delay here will test that resolve.

 

[bramling]

This group may not cause civil unrest, their closure/restrictions can cause a lot of noise/headaches for the Government though, especially via Tory backbenchers looking out for their interests and/or supporting freedom generally. They've largely been quiet since the roadmap was announced and it's following to time so far, any delay here will test that resolve.

I suspect a lot of businesses are bugged by the possibility that they could be called out and shamed.

There’s certainly been issues in my town - a florist was reported for serving customers via a table in their front door, whilst at least two pubs have notices up asking customers to ensure they follow the rules as “we’ve had the police called on us”. Then there was a shop subjected to a Facebook thread which ran into over a hundred posts, which started because a member of staff wasn’t wearing a mask - reading the majority of posts you’d have thought the place in question was akin to the devil.

I do think attitudes are changing though, the rump we’re left with is people who have an ulterior agenda, or just plain trouble stirrers.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I agree it isn’t a mainstream attitude. There’s certainly an interesting disparity in attitudes - London feels like people have got back to normal, likewise here in rural Wales you wouldn’t really know there was anything abnormal. But at home in Hertfordshire it’s anything but. I can only attribute this to the “Home Counties commuter” types.

Even back last autumn that was beginning to emerge. When I was living at uni, the contrast between Wiltshire (and points west) versus Oxfordshire (and points east) was pretty stark. And when I returned home, it was much more like the former than the latter. I suppose that would fit the Home Counties pattern you describe perfectly!

Certainly, it does feel pretty normal round here now. I went to Scarborough and Bridlington earlier this week, and it really did feel like a typical warm summer's day!

 

[kristiang85]

Has anybody from Labour piped up yet? I'm presuming they would go for an extension, but it would be nice to think the opposition might actually oppose something so ridiculous.

 

[Simon11]

Has anybody from Labour piped up yet? I'm presuming they would go for an extension, but it would be nice to think the opposition might actually oppose something so ridiculous.

Don't be silly!!!

Labour should be out there challenging the government, looking at the data and providing secondary independent view of next actions to take.

 

[Wuffle]

While I am sure it was, was there a similar programme called perhaps 'Public House' which described the stretch many businesses are under to tread water financially let alone catch up on 16 months of heavy restrictions. Or from a teacher working with special needs kids trying to catch up on months of being absent from school. This is not a single factor equation.

Last night was the first of the new series of The Hotel Inspector and perfectly illustrated this point, the tourism, leisure and hospitality sectors have been thrown to the wind under lockdowns

 

[PTR 444]

If restrictions aren’t eased as planned on June 21st on the basis that more adults need to be vaccinated, I think it would make sense to allow under-40s to be offered the Oxford AZ jab again, on the basis that blood clotting poses less of a risk than the impact of continued restrictions and the Indian variant. Considering that Moderna has barely taken off, Pfizer is expecting a delay in supplies and Janssen availability is some weeks off yet, there’s not much choice available for the younger population desperate to get back to normal.