Should TfL scrap free travel for Over 60

Clayton

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I have to say that while transport in London is very good it’s also very cheap with an Oyster, and lots of people go free. There is no reason why 60 year olds should travel for free.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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I have to say that while transport in London is very good it’s also very cheap with an Oyster, and lots of people go free. There is no reason why 60 year olds should travel for free.

Should be restricted to say 0930 or thereabouts. Most of these citizens have paid taxes and charges for at least some of their working lives and deserve this concession.
 

RT4038

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I have to say that while transport in London is very good it’s also very cheap with an Oyster, and lots of people go free. There is no reason why 60 year olds should travel for free.
Are you meaning all over 60, or between 60 and their state pension age?
 
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I have to say that while transport in London is very good it’s also very cheap with an Oyster, and lots of people go free. There is no reason why 60 year olds should travel for free.
I’d agree. They can have their free bus travel like the rest of the country gets, but I can’t see why all public transport should be free for them.
It feels a bit like a kick in the teeth for over-60s to get free travel, when fares are already lower than the rest of the UK.
 

Mikey C

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I’d agree. They can have their free bus travel like the rest of the country gets, but I can’t see why all public transport should be free for them.
It feels a bit like a kick in the teeth for over-60s to get free travel, when fares are already lower than the rest of the UK.
Not really, as that's what devolution is all about. After all residents of Wales and Scotland have benefits that residents in England don't
 

Busaholic

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Let's get this straight - it's nothing to do with Freedom Pass age, which begins at the same time as the ENCTS. It was a political move by a London Mayor to court popularity with the early 60s age group, and, for a one-off fee of £20(?) extends the benefit of the FP to those people. It should never have happened imo and should be scrapped for new entrants: finishing it altogether, given the fee paid, would be more problematic, and cause more trouble than it's worth.
 

MotCO

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I take exception to under-16s having free travel in London. I am happy for travel to and from school to be free, but why should all travel be free?
 

deltic

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I take exception to under-16s having free travel in London. I am happy for travel to and from school to be free, but why should all travel be free?
One to encourage families to use public transport rather than drive and two if young people get used to travelling on public transport they are likely to continue to do so. Free travel only applies to buses - over 10 year olds have to pay for underground and rail.

In relation to OP's original question I thought its the London Boroughs that pay for the free travel so cost to TfL of providing it is effectively zero.
 

PeterC

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Let's get this straight - it's nothing to do with Freedom Pass age, which begins at the same time as the ENCTS. It was a political move by a London Mayor to court popularity with the early 60s age group, and, for a one-off fee of £20(?) extends the benefit of the FP to those people. It should never have happened imo and should be scrapped for new entrants: finishing it altogether, given the fee paid, would be more problematic, and cause more trouble than it's worth.
It would be political suicide to do away with it but £20 for seven years free travel is crazy. At a minimum charge the same as a senior railcard and renew annually.
 

Clayton

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One to encourage families to use public transport rather than drive and two if young people get used to travelling on public transport they are likely to continue to do so. Free travel only applies to buses - over 10 year olds have to pay for underground and rail.

In relation to OP's original question I thought its the London Boroughs that pay for the free travel so cost to TfL of providing it is effectively zero.
Oh is that right? Interesting. I’m in favour of it in theory, but if we’re bailing TFL out I don’t want to be paying for my rich brother in law to zap about in the tube for free every day! It really is a great service and I wish other cities had something comparable.
 

GusB

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A wee word of caution - let's please stick to discussing issues pertaining to concessionary travel within the TfL area. I realise that people may wish to compare TfL schemes with those in other parts of the country, but I'm wary about this becoming another general concessionary travel discussion.
 

Tetchytyke

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It was a political sop by a mayor who knew he wouldn't be around long enough to have to pay for it, and it would be political suicide to try and abolish it. If TfL literally running out of money, as they did two weeks ago, won't make people sit up and take notice, nothing will.
 

Clayton

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I raised it because not only is public transport in London so much better than elsewhere, it’s cheaper and free if you’re 60. I’m not into the politics of envy and would rather other places were levelled up.
 

Starmill

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I take exception to under-16s having free travel in London. I am happy for travel to and from school to be free, but why should all travel be free?
I never had any free travel to and from school, the cost of it was quite significant too. I always thought that was wrong then and still do now.
 

big all

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I raised it because not only is public transport in London so much better than elsewhere, it’s cheaper and free if you’re 60. I’m not into the politics of envy and would rather other places were levelled up.
all extra concessions are paid for by council tax paid by the people in the area covered by the extra concession so a local thing with only a small amount off overlap to adjoining councils ??
 

JetBlast

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I take exception to under-16s having free travel in London. I am happy for travel to and from school to be free, but why should all travel be free?
Under 16s don't really have any source of income. Over 60's are either still working and/or have a pension.
 

MotCO

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Under 16s don't really have any source of income. Over 60's are either still working and/or have a pension.
As I said earlier, I'm happy for home to school travel to be free, but not all travel for 5 - 16 year olds. If I caught a bus when I was younger, I had to pay for all my trips (including to school) out of my pocket money - what's different about today?
 

JetBlast

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Just because there was a rule in place when you was younger doesn't mean it's right or should be in place now.

Kids (especially teenagers) have a life to lead and they have very little income inn an expensive city. Free travel will help them lead be more independent. People complain they sit indoor and look at screens all day, removing free travel will make this worse.

Not all children get pocket money anyway.
 
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It does appear so for cards issued by London Councils. However, the similar card issued by councils outside London are valid for buses only (buses in this case does not include Tramlink)
 

PeterC

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I raised it because not only is public transport in London so much better than elsewhere, it’s cheaper and free if you’re 60. I’m not into the politics of envy and would rather other places were levelled up.
To be pedantic you do have to pay a nominal fee for the 60+ card.

I am open to correction but I thought that the 60+ and non statutory elements of the Freedom Pass were funded by TfL rather than the boroughs. This does pose the question of what would constitute "levelling up" and who would pay.
 

Shimbleshanks

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As someone who has recently turned 60, I see free travel as paypack for the pain of paying around £200 a month council tax for the past 20 years - and which I'm still paying, of course.
For the Over-60s Oyster to be any use, it needs to be free travel on rail as well as bus. Buses out here in the further reaches of South London are pretty useless for getting into central London - probably the best part of 2 hours as opposed to 25 minutes or so by train. Not sure I've ever thought of travel in London as 'cheap'; well over £11 for an off-peak one-day travelcard - and don't even think about the peak rate...
 

JonathanH

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Not sure I've ever thought of travel in London as 'cheap'; well over £11 for an off-peak one-day travelcard - and don't even think about the peak rate...
Er, the PAYG cap for Zone 1-2 is £7.20, the cap for Zone 1-6 is £13.20. Same peak and off-peak. They don't want passengers using paper travelcards which is why they are more expensive.

Single bus fares are £1.50 which is cheap especially with bus hopper. Some arteries into Central London are quicker than others but admittedly nowhere near as quick as a train.
 

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