Should TfL scrap free travel for Over 60

[Robertj21a]

As someone who has recently turned 60, I see free travel as paypack for the pain of paying around £200 a month council tax for the past 20 years - and which I'm still paying, of course.
For the Over-60s Oyster to be any use, it needs to be free travel on rail as well as bus. Buses out here in the further reaches of South London are pretty useless for getting into central London - probably the best part of 2 hours as opposed to 25 minutes or so by train. Not sure I've ever thought of travel in London as 'cheap'; well over £11 for an off-peak one-day travelcard - and don't even think about the peak rate...

Bus travel in London at £1.50 is absurdly cheap when compared to elsewhere in the UK.

 

[Mikey C]

Bus travel in London at £1.50 is absurdly cheap when compared to elsewhere in the UK.

But then nowhere else in the UK has a congestion charge plus a ULEZ charge

 

[Robertj21a]

But then nowhere else in the UK has a congestion charge plus a ULEZ charge

Not sure why that's relevant. Few people would want to drive a car in London anyway.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not sure why that's relevant. Few people would want to drive a car in London anyway.

Because- in theory- the revenue from the congestion charge and the ULEZ helps subsidise bus fares.

I'd say TfL having control of their own bus network has more to do with the low fares.

 

[jumble]

It would be political suicide to do away with it but £20 for seven years free travel is crazy. At a minimum charge the same as a senior railcard and renew annually.

Just to be Picky it costs a tenner a year so the 7 years costs £80.00 not £20.00

I am not in favour of it being changed

60+ London Oyster photocard

If you're aged 60 or over and live in a London borough, you might be eligible for a 60+ London Oyster photocard

tfl.gov.uk

Yearly address check and fee
You need to provide proof of your London borough address and pay £10 (non-refundable) for each year you have your photocard.

 

[MotCO]

60+ London Oyster photocard

If you're aged 60 or over and live in a London borough, you might be eligible for a 60+ London Oyster photocard

tfl.gov.uk

Yearly address check and fee
You need to provide proof of your London borough address and pay £10 (non-refundable) for each year you have your photocard.

Only if you applied after 1 August 2019. I didn't realise this until you raised it - I'm ok, but Mrs MotCO will have to pay £10 per year!

 

[jumble]

Missed it by 3 months
Oh well I can live with that I suppose LOL

 

[Shimbleshanks]

Er, the PAYG cap for Zone 1-2 is £7.20, the cap for Zone 1-6 is £13.20. Same peak and off-peak. They don't want passengers using paper travelcards which is why they are more expensive.

Single bus fares are £1.50 which is cheap especially with bus hopper. Some arteries into Central London are quicker than others but admittedly nowhere near as quick as a train.

Whatever the price, it certainly ain't cheap. And as I said elsewhere in my post, buses are fairly useless this far out except for local travel, unless you have loads of time on your hands.

What's the motivation for saying it's 'too cheap'? Jealousy? Perhaps you'd be better off lobbying your own local politicians for something similar rather than trying to take away one of the few perks of living in London. As I said, we pay for it many times over in council tax, higher cost of living etc.

 

[JonathanH]

What's the motivation for saying it's 'too cheap'? Jealousy? Perhaps you'd be better off lobbying your own local politicians for something similar rather than trying to take away one of the few perks of living in London.

Not jealousy, more like realism. London's bus network is being run at a considerable loss.

When I have time on my hands, £1.50 to go by bus from Redhill to the edge of Central London is great (405/468/2, 405/127/44, 405/109/159 etc). The local flat fare in the Redhill area on Metrobus is £2.60. London bus fares are cheap.

 

[PeterC]

Just to be Picky it costs a tenner a year so the 7 years costs £80.00 not £20.00

I am not in favour of it being changed

60+ London Oyster photocard

If you're aged 60 or over and live in a London borough, you might be eligible for a 60+ London Oyster photocard

tfl.gov.uk

Yearly address check and fee
You need to provide proof of your London borough address and pay £10 (non-refundable) for each year you have your photocard.

That has changed since SWMBO took hers out. The £10 fee for each annual address check is well hidden in the small print and there are lots of websites around just mentioning the flat fee.

 

[Robertj21a]

Whatever the price, it certainly ain't cheap. And as I said elsewhere in my post, buses are fairly useless this far out except for local travel, unless you have loads of time on your hands.

What's the motivation for saying it's 'too cheap'? Jealousy? Perhaps you'd be better off lobbying your own local politicians for something similar rather than trying to take away one of the few perks of living in London. As I said, we pay for it many times over in council tax, higher cost of living etc.

There doesn't need to be a motivation. It's a very cheap fare when compared to anywhere else in the UK. They can only get away with it because London is a regulated and subsidised operation.

 

[Snow1964]

One to encourage families to use public transport rather than drive and two if young people get used to travelling on public transport they are likely to continue to do so. Free travel only applies to buses - over 10 year olds have to pay for underground and rail.

In relation to OP's original question I thought its the London Boroughs that pay for the free travel so cost to TfL of providing it is effectively zero.

Every London Council Tax has a hefty TfL precept added, so if borough paying it is just an accounting split, as ultimately Londoners pay through their Council tax and most adults also pay fares

There seems to be some confusion, there is the statutory pension age card and then a 60+ card (which covers from 60th birthday to official pension age). When this started pension age was lower so as pension age has increased covers more people. Effectively gives commuters over 60 free travel

There appears to be some restrictions likely to come in as result of Government bail out about 10 days ago.

Cant find it at moment, but there was a section in TfL Board or committee papers about 4-6 months ago that listed and gave value for all these free travel (there are others: unemployed, veterans, friend of TfL staff, children, young adults/students over 18 etc), from memory total forfeited revenue was few hundred million pounds a year.

 

[deltic]

Every London Council Tax has a hefty TfL precept added, so if borough paying it is just an accounting split, as ultimately Londoners pay through their Council tax and most adults also pay fares

There seems to be some confusion, there is the statutory pension age card and then a 60+ card (which covers from 60th birthday to official pension age). When this started pension age was lower so as pension age has increased covers more people. Effectively gives commuters over 60 free travel

There appears to be some restrictions likely to come in as result of Government bail out about 10 days ago.

Cant find it at moment, but there was a section in TfL Board or committee papers about 4-6 months ago that listed and gave value for all these free travel (there are others: unemployed, veterans, friend of TfL staff, children, young adults/students over 18 etc), from memory total forfeited revenue was few hundred million pounds a year.

My understanding is that the Freedom Pass is paid for by London Councils using revenue mainly received from on-street parking revenues (resident permits, penalty charges and parking charges) which by law must be spent on transport related matters. I see from the paper you refer to that the cost to TfL of the scheme is given as £21m a year. Presumably the cost of administering the scheme? The Oyster 60+ card costs TfL £69m a year and seems to relate to compensating National Rail operators.

Oystercards for under 16 is costed at £90m, 16+ at £75m, 18+ a £30m. These are cover a combination of free or discounted travel depending on mode and age. Full paper is at https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/tfl_finances_-_final.pdf

 

[Man of Kent]

Every London Council Tax has a hefty TfL precept added,

They don't. For a Band D property, it's £1.97, 3p less than last year. Most of the GLA precept goes to the Met Police (£252.13) Fire Brigade (£55.28) and the GLA itself (£22.69).
Concessionary fares come from the Borough's precept.

 

[MotCO]

posted in wrong thread