Should Thameslink appear on the Tube map? (Now expected to appear in December on Tube map)

Should Thameslink appear on the Tube Map?

  • Yes

    Votes: 243 76.2%
  • No

    Votes: 52 16.3%
  • I don't care

    Votes: 24 7.5%

  • Total voters
    319
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Dstock7080

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It had a pretty thorough consultation at the time. It might still be online somewhere?
But one of the stated benefits was more trains to Wimbledon and Richmond IIRC...
Wimbledon, as the MP for that constituency had been pushing LU for an increase, which lead to the 20min 1 train peak step-back at High Street service.
Which later saw the withdrawal of weekday services.
 

ShadowKnight

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On many tfl and national rail stations there are already greater london rail maps with every commuter rail service (even southeastern high speed) within the oyster/contactless PAYG zone. Thameslink is unique as being the Crossrail 0,which merits it going on the TFL map (which is world famous)
 

Dstock7080

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Tube map update

From January 2021, we’re temporarily adding the Thameslink rail network to our iconic Tube map. It’s hoped that this temporary addition will help our customers better plan their journeys and assist us managing demand across our network - facilitating safe social distancing. It will also support a series of forthcoming closures on the Northern line in 2021-22 as we continue our works to upgrade Bank station, which include weekend closures and a reduced service during the week.

Thameslink will provide more travel options for our customers, as it’s a high frequency service that operates through London.

The Thameslink service will be shown up to Zone 6 and indicate the final destination of the route. It will be distinguishable by a different line pattern design from TfL services, and the key will inform customers they need to check with Thameslink for additional customer service and accessibility information, as it’s not operated by us.

The updated map will be rolled out early next year, so keep an eye out for it.
 
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Cdd89

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Now the under-10-minute walking route dotted line between City Thameslink and St Paul’s is officially reflected on the tube map, that desperately needs to be added as an OSI. People are going to get surprise charges otherwise.
 

Ianno87

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Now the under-10-minute walking route dotted line between City Thameslink and St Paul’s is officially reflected on the tube map, that desperately needs to be added as an OSI. People are going to get surprise charges otherwise.

There are other examples where a line is shown without an OSI being available (And vice-versa).

Eventually, it won't be that useful an interchange anyway, as people will change to the Busy Lizzie at Farringdon instead.
 

Cdd89

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There are other examples where a line is shown without an OSI being available (And vice-versa).
Not in Zone 1 there aren’t!

I agree it’ll be mostly superseded, but TfL’s justification for adding TL is a response to temporary disruption so people will be using any other route they can find to complete their journey. If Bank is going to be disrupted on weekends then there’s even an argument for opening CTL on weekends. There’ll also remain use for it after Crossrail, unless we think that line is going to have 100% reliability :smile:
 

matt_world2004

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Should have only had Thameslink on zone 1-2 not much different than a London connections map now. And it's going to be hard to read on the tiny pocket maps
 

Mikey C

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A copy of the map accompanied a press release that was put out this morning. It can be accessed at the following link https://cdn.prgloo.com/media/download/6d719b983b324761a393281605e1ffa8
One extreme to the other

The central core of Thameslink (West Hampstead/Finsbury Park to Elephant/London Bridge) should permanently be on the tube map, but it seems unnecessary to include the whole line out to Zone 8, especially when you end up with silly omissions like Woolwich Dockyard as Thameslink trains don't stop there!
 

Ianno87

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One extreme to the other

The central core of Thameslink (West Hampstead/Finsbury Park to Elephant/London Bridge) should permanently be on the tube map, but it seems unnecessary to include the whole line out to Zone 8, especially when you end up with silly omissions like Woolwich Dockyard as Thameslink trains don't stop there!

But going as far as Abbey Wood does make sense if Crossrail is (eventually) going there.

It's one of those things where there is never going to be a "right" answer.
 

Cdd89

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it seems unnecessary to include the whole line out to Zone 8, especially when you end up with silly omissions like Woolwich Dockyard as Thameslink trains don't stop there!

I agree. Much of these lines get 2tph on Thameslink which is not enough for turn-up-and-go service in my opinion; with the extremities this is not a huge issue since there are not other options, but with TL this could lead to poor journey decisions on the assumption of a frequent service.

Not only that, there is an NR1-T fare surcharge on a mixed mode Z1 journey that includes TL south/east of London Bridge / Elephant & Castle, and north of Finsbury Park / West Hampstead Thameslink. I see no mention of that on the map.

I wouldn't be surprised if other TOCs begin to cry foul over preferential treatment given to TL. Someone looking at the Tube Map would think the way to get to Gatwick is via London Bridge, when there are Southern and GEX services from Victoria. C2C accepted TfL fares on their service but they don't get a mention.

Personally I think the solution is to get rid of the Tube Map - it is simply not useful or fit for purpose. The alternative would be to come up with a criteria of what the tube map is - whether that's frequency, service provider, transport mode, etc - publish it and stick to it.
 

Ianno87

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I wouldn't be surprised if other TOCs begin to cry foul over preferential treatment given to TL. Someone looking at the Tube Map would think the way to get to Gatwick is via London Bridge, when there are Southern and GEX services from Victoria.

If only Southern, Thameslink and Gatwick Express were really the same TOC...

C2C accepted TfL fares on their service but they don't get a mention.

*Or* c2c get a slice of the revenue whilst LU carry the lion's share of the passengers...
 

londonteacher

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there is an NR1-T fare surcharge on a mixed mode Z1 journey that includes TL south/east of London Bridge / Elephant & Castle, and north of Finsbury Park / West Hampstead Thameslink. I see no mention of that on the map
But, the reason why this has been done is because of the Northern Line works over the next year. It wouldn't surprise me if journeys that begin or finish on this section have their fares changed to match this as a true replacement service.
 

NorthKent1989

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One extreme to the other

The central core of Thameslink (West Hampstead/Finsbury Park to Elephant/London Bridge) should permanently be on the tube map, but it seems unnecessary to include the whole line out to Zone 8, especially when you end up with silly omissions like Woolwich Dockyard as Thameslink trains don't stop there!

I agree with this.

The central zone 1/2 sections get tube like frequencies anyway and the central section is basically an express Northern line much like how CrossRail is going to be the express Version of the Central Line.

But to include the outer branches is extreme, the Dartford branch is misleading for a start as it says it goes as far as Gravesend only but it actually goes much further to Medway.

It’s no longer a tube map and hasn’t been one for years now
 

Ianno87

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Why are New Southgate, Oakleigh Park and New Barnet on Thameslink? Surely they're GN only?

The (pre-Covid) half hourly peak only Kings Cross-Welwyn stoppers are "Thameslink" (as they - in theory - will eventually go through the core).

But that isn't congruent with the non-inclusion of any of the East Grinstead branch, which *does* have a peak core service today!

In my view, inclusion of any station north of Finsbury Park is odd - the next station with an regular core service is Stevenage!

Has anyone been talking about how absolutely god awful it looks?

The bend to fit in Purley / Coulsdon South looks odd...
 

Envy123

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The (pre-Covid) half hourly peak only Kings Cross-Welwyn stoppers are "Thameslink" (as they - in theory - will eventually go through the core).

But that isn't congruent with the non-inclusion of any of the East Grinstead branch, which *does* have a peak core service today!

In my view, inclusion of any station north of Finsbury Park is odd - the next station with an regular core service is Stevenage!
I agree. Surely the stations which have a regular service through the core should appear, not the ones that are Thameslink in name only.
 

southern442

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The bend to fit in Purley / Coulsdon South looks odd...
That's not all, Herne Hill, Tulse Hill and Streatham are all horrifically bunched together, generally the way in which the line has to wind through existing lines and text makes it far less legible than before, not to mention South Croydon randomly being shown when the East Grinstead line isn't.

There also seems to be an ugly new 90 degree bend on the Victoria Line, and some of the zone patterns in the south around Tramlink are really horrible and confusing too. It is a total bodge job and a complete mess.
 

NorthKent1989

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Has anyone been talking about how absolutely god awful it looks?

Indeed it does, one would assume that due to how squished Streatham, Tulse Hill and Herne Hill are on the map, that they would literally be the same distance equidistant between those stations as there is between West India Quay, Canary Wharf, Heron Quays are on the DLR, ironically there does appear to be more distance between those station on the map than Streatham/TH/HH

I agree. Surely the stations which have a regular service through the core should appear, not the ones that are Thameslink in name only.

West Hampstead/Finsbury Park down to E&C/London Bridge should be shown but the rest of it shouldn’t be
 

Ianno87

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West Hampstead/Finsbury Park down to E&C/London Bridge should be shown but the rest of it shouldn’t be

And the 8-10tph service to East Croydon isn't worth showing? Especially when East Croydon is on the map anyway for Tramlink.
 

londonteacher

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And the 8-10tph service to East Croydon isn't worth showing? Especially when East Croydon is on the map anyway for Tramlink.
No it shouldn't be. Thameslink has been added as a Northern Line alternative during closures. So, only the section that matches should be allowed.
 

LeeLivery

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It's a badly done job and feels like no real effort was put in because "it's temporary". Saying that though, I don't think it'll ever be totally removed.

1. The Sydenham corridor is a mess split into two
2. The distance between LO and TL around Peckham is too wide (same for Met corridor)
3. Herne Hill, Streatham and Tulse Hill are awfully bunched
4. St Pancras to Finsbury would've been neater if it had followed the Vic Line
5. New Southgate, Oakleigh, New Barnet shouldn't be on there
6. Bromley South is missing a double arrow (for Kent services)
7. Doesn't St Pancras Thameslink have level boarding via the hump?
8. Not convinced Blackfriars needed to show cross-river - could be tidied up
9. Nunhead is on the wrong side of ELL
10. The colour choice is a questionable shade
11. Strange the Waterloo & City line isn't being clearly showed as closed

No it shouldn't be. Thameslink has been added as a Northern Line alternative during closures. So, only the section that matches should be allowed.

I expected it on there tbh. Especially with the promotion of Croydon as a third/fourth economic hub for London.
 

Ianno87

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I expected it on there tbh. Especially with the promotion of Croydon as a third/fourth economic hub for London.

Does get a bit weird if the logic for the tube map becomes:

-Chalfont & Latimer, Chigwell, Turkey Street: YES!
-East Croydon: NO!
 
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