Should the Concessionary Fares Scheme be 24/7?

[Aictos]

No. It's bad enough as it is in the evening peak with buses full of freebies and no seats for paying customers.

I imagine Cornwall made their decision because much of the county has an irregular bus service. That makes sense.

I totally agree, my home city I don't think has a 24/7 policy yet the local bus company accepts them 24/7 which results in no seats for paying passengers.

If the county has a irregular bus service then I could understand but when it's marketered as up to every 10 minutes then no!

How about a compromise? Allow 24 hour travel to Disabled persons who are in, or looking for work. In fact I would go further and allow free national rail travel for this group as people with disabilities are woefully underrepresented in the workplace.

The best thing where there is a frequent bus service is it is only valid after 1000 nationwide in line with a number of rail railcards, with use before being subjected to a £1 charge.

 

[AM9]

How about a compromise? Allow 24 hour travel to Disabled persons who are in, or looking for work. In fact I would go further and allow free national rail travel for this group as people with disabilities are woefully underrepresented in the workplace.

So how would a driver/conductor establish that a person is "looking for work"? And how much woulld that cost to administer?
Be careful what you (and others here) wish for. There are many senior citizens who have cars and the right to use them but prefer the bus as they don't feel that confident when they drive. If they are forced to drive, there will be considerable delays to all of those with no time for other hesitant road users.

 

[Samuel88]

So how would a driver/conductor establish that a person is "looking for work"? And how much woulld that cost to administer?
Be careful what you (and others here) wish for. There are many senior citizens who have cars and the right to use them but prefer the bus as they don't feel that confident when they drive. If they are forced to drive, there will be considerable delays to all of those with no time for other hesitant road users.

TfGM have a 'concessionary plus' pass which allows 24 hour bus travel for people with disabilities who work and/or are in education.

 

[AM9]

TfGM have a 'concessionary plus' pass which allows 24 hour bus travel for people with disabilities who work and/or are in education.

But the suggestion was that those looking for work would also get free travel. Given that 'looking for work' for most is a transitory state, administration of a system that actually achieved that bu couldn't easily be abused would not be cheap.

 

[Samuel88]

But the suggestion was that those looking for work would also get free travel. Given that 'looking for work' for most is a transitory state, administration of a system that actually achieved that bu couldn't easily be abused would not be cheap.

Of course they'd have to prove they were looking for work, maybe a letter from a Job Centre work coach for example.

 

[Joe Paxton]

TfL offer half-price bus travel for those claiming certain benefits including Jobseekers Allowance, it's in the form of the Bus & Tram Discount photocard. In the case of JSA and Universal Credit, the application form needs to be validated by the person's Jobcentre Plus advisor. The discount is then valid for 6 months, regardless of whether the person finds work or not. After 6 months if the person still qualifies then they can apply again for a new photocard.

The fact the discount works on Oyster obviously makes it far simpler - bus drivers don't need to take any special action.

 

[AM9]

TfL offer half-price bus travel for those claiming certain benefits including Jobseekers Allowance, it's in the form of the Bus & Tram Discount photocard. In the case of JSA and Universal Credit, the application form needs to be validated by the person's Jobcentre Plus advisor. The discount is then valid for 6 months, regardless of whether the person finds work or not. After 6 months if the person still qualifies then they can apply again for a new photocard.

The fact the discount works on Oyster obviously makes it far simpler - bus drivers don't need to take any special action.

I doubt that it would work that well with many small operators who aren't as well organised as TfL.

 

[Eyersey468]

You have more confidence in certain# politicians to act sensibly than I have. An awful lot of promises have been made. They have to be paid for somehow. And some of those were pretty stupid ('tax cuts for the better off', 'review of foxhunting') - that's before they are in office. It didn't stop Theresa May promising a 'Dementia Tax' before the last election, did no-one tell her that you make such statements after the election? There are too many leading politicians that I wouldn't trust to bung the responsibility on to local authorities. giving them a pittance of money to pay for it a la TV licence and multi-job George.

# - there are quite a few hard working, sensible, thoughtful politicians. Mainly to be found on the back benches.

I can't see them doing away with the scheme, it would be political suicide. Far easier to simply squeeze and squeeze the bus companies then blame the bus companies when swathes of services get cut as they can no longer pay.

 

[175mph]

I've been on buses before that have been scheduled at a stop at 09.31 but it turned up at 09.28. That's when you get the arguements!

In which case, if I was the driver, I'd if possible, wait until I was on time.

 

[Tom B]

I can't see them doing away with the scheme, it would be political suicide. Far easier to simply squeeze and squeeze the bus companies then blame the bus companies when swathes of services get cut as they can no longer pay.

And if proof were needed, just look at the recent television license situation where the government has pushed the cost onto the BBC, the BBC has responded by making a cut from richer pensioners, the government now says how disappointed it is that the BBC are doing that (thus trying to protect their position with the daily mail brigade).

Back to the 9am start. SYPTE used to allow this until a few years ago. Local to me was a large secondary school and after students had been dropped off, a double decker took over a trip on the minibus operated estate route departing at 0900. A route which, at best, would have two dozen passengers on a trip would for that trip have a rather full decker (50+).

 

[Hadders]

Hertfordshire issued ENTCS cards are valid at any time on services within Hertfordshire but those issued elsewhere are only valid after 09:30 on weekdays.

 

[175mph]

Hertfordshire issued ENTCS cards are valid at any time on services within Hertfordshire but those issued elsewhere are only valid after 09:30 on weekdays.

Same policy with North Lincolnshire issued ones too within North Lincolnshire and also with Hull City issued ones within the Hull City boundary.

 

[Meole]

I understand Cornwall Council allow the use of Concessionary passes at any time of the day and not just during specific times and obviously I'm aware that in Wales and Scotland Concessionary passes are valid 24/7

Do you think British Concessionary passes should be required to be valid for travel at all times or do you think 24/7 free travel should continue to be discretionary?

What criteria are used to issue British passes ? these are more restricted than others ?

 

[JL1]

They should be axed altogther, its not fair that people who have to use the bus everyday for work college school etc have to fair ever increasing fares.

These passes are one of the main reasons why so many services have been cut or axed

 

[Samuel88]

They should be axed altogther, its not fair that people who have to use the bus everyday for work college school etc have to fair ever increasing fares.

These passes are one of the main reasons why so many services have been cut or axed

Err, no....

 

[route101]

In Scotland the Citylink services are popular, fully booked at times , concession pass holders a good reason for that

 

[Busaholic]

They should be axed altogther, its not fair that people who have to use the bus everyday for work college school etc have to fair ever increasing fares.

These passes are one of the main reasons why so many services have been cut or axed

Please produce your 'evidence' for this (the second para- the first is an opinion only.)

 

[Temple Meads]

They should be axed altogther, its not fair that people who have to use the bus everyday for work college school etc have to fair ever increasing fares.

Generally tickets valid for a week or longer are affordable - it's singles and returns that are out of proportion, so it's the occasional bus users who are affected more than daily commuters.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I doubt that it would work that well with many small operators who aren't as well organised as TfL.

It can be administered in the same way ENCTS is for disabled working-age adults. You prove eligibility, you get your card. It's hardly rocket science.

 

[AM9]

It can be administered in the same way ENCTS is for disabled working-age adults. You prove eligibility, you get your card. It's hardly rocket science.

Not really, adult disability is generally a lifelong status, (do they ever withdraw ENCTS disabled passes because the holder 'gets better'?). Unemployed status can change monthly, - either way. Then do you give them free travel when looking for work or is going to the pub also included?
I'm not against the unemployed getting free bus travel, it's better than some of them running barely legal and frequently unsafe cars around because bus fares are beyond them. The problem is exacerbated partly because buses are run for profit so subsidising travel of any kind is bound to be a different experience from one area/company's services to another.

 

[matt_world2004]

TfL offer half-price bus travel for those claiming certain benefits including Jobseekers Allowance, it's in the form of the Bus & Tram Discount photocard. In the case of JSA and Universal Credit, the application form needs to be validated by the person's Jobcentre Plus advisor. The discount is then valid for 6 months, regardless of whether the person finds work or not. After 6 months if the person still qualifies then they can apply again for a new photocard.

The fact the discount works on Oyster obviously makes it far simpler - bus drivers don't need to take any special action.

ENCTS passes can be used at any time on tfl buses. Freedom passes can be used at any time on tfl operated or contracted rail services.

 

[matt_world2004]

I would personally rather all passholders entitled to encts through disability got free travel at any time. Most people because of crowding do not travel for leisure 08:00am, the free pass will reduce the barriers to employment for their disability and the barriers for seeking employment. Any use that the disabeld person gets above that even during peak time should just be seen as a bonus

 

[Samuel88]

I would personally rather all passholders entitled to encts through disability got free travel at any time. Most people because of crowding do not travel for leisure 08:00am, the free pass will reduce the barriers to employment for their disability and the barriers for seeking employment. Any use that the disabeld person gets above that even during peak time should just be seen as a bonus

I agree, and if I'm being honest, even in London where the elderly get 24hr travel, you hardly ever see anyone past retirement age during the morning peak, so really how many extra journeys would be made nationally if ENCTS was made 24hrs?

 

[JL1]

Please produce your 'evidence' for this (the second para- the first is an opinion only.)

Thats why a lot of services have to be supported by Councils because they're not making enough money, if OAP's paid half fare then it would at least bring more income in. The only people who should get to travel for free are those with disabilties.

 

[Samuel88]

Thats why a lot of services have to be supported by Councils because they're not making enough money, if OAP's paid half fare then it would at least bring more income in. The only people who should get to travel for free are those with disabilties.

Actually it would probably mean that half of those people would get back in their car meaning the councils would be no better off!

 

[Statto]

Merseytravel issued disabled ENCTS passes are valid anytime in the Merseyside area, after 09.30 outside Merseyside, Merseytravel issued OAP ENCTS passes not valid 06.30 to 09.30 Monday to Friday though.

 

[Typhoon]

Thats why a lot of services have to be supported by Councils because they're not making enough money, if OAP's paid half fare then it would at least bring more income in. The only people who should get to travel for free are those with disabilties.

Please clarify whether you mean, in addition to the amount the council pays or instead of it.

General point: some pensioners travel on buses because it gets them out of the house, they will go 'somewhere nice', have a cup of tea and a bun and the go home, near where I live they will go to the Over 60's (which is really the Over 75's), they will volunteer in charity shops (a woman I know was volunteering at Age UK at 95), they might go to bingo, reading groups, 'knit and natter', they might go into primary schools to help children read. Now this would not stop but it would almost certainly reduce. So fewer people on the buses so frequencies are reduced so the old people (which does include me) don't go out so much. I'm not saying that your suggestion isn't 'the answer', I'm saying the likelihood of your solution resulting in a restoration of the services that have been cut is pretty small.

Incidentally I think there are residents of a good many shire counties who would question "That's why a lot of services have to be supported by Councils". Some are but a lot aren't, they were cut - and, whatever you do, they won't be coming back.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Not really, adult disability is generally a lifelong status, (do they ever withdraw ENCTS disabled passes because the holder 'gets better'?).

ENCTS eligibility is largely linked to eligibility for benefits such as PIP. The passes are time-limited, and have to be renewed.

It's not a lifelong award.

 

[Deerfold]

ENCTS passes can be used at any time on tfl buses. Freedom passes can be used at any time on tfl operated or contracted rail services.

To add, Freedom passes can be used on non-TfL buses in London 24/7, but other ENCTS passes only 0930-2300.

 

[Samuel88]

To add, Freedom passes can be used on non-TfL buses in London 24/7, but other ENCTS passes only 0930-2300.

Actually, Freedom Passes can't, I've tried on several occasions to board non-TfL buses in the London area before 9:30 (84,402,477 and the 757) only to be told that I have to pay. I did some research and indeed, Freedom Passes can't be used on non TfL buses before the 9:30 time, even when boarding in the London boroughs.