Should the quiet coach be called the silence coach?

[krisk]

If its the only place left with seats then I will use it and if my phone rings so be it. I'm not standing when thats the only remaining seats.

There are no RULES to quiet coaches, just that you show consideration. If that gets flouted then there's no railway bylaw that's broken.

 

[TGV]

Blocking mobile signals is a dumbass idea. That would prevent people texting or sending emails which is perfectly sociable and lest we forget, one of big advantages to many people who choose to travel by train instead of car or plane: because they can be productive en route. That doesn't always mean loud conversations on a phone.

I once had an elderly passenger complain to me because I was using earphones in the quiet coach. I took them out to listen to his whiny whinge (which made more noise than anything else), then I let the phone play the movie I was watching (wasn't music) while I held the earphones out and you know what? *I* couldn't hear a noise from them at all (wasn't the awful white apple ones) and it occurred to me that he wasn't complaining about the noise (because there wasn't any) but because the unhelpful quiet zone sign had pictures of many things including headphones with a red line through them. He was objecting to me using then not actually causing noise. I asked if he could hear any noise, to which he grumbled some weak response about devices being banned so I put them back in and carried on. He didn't complain to me again but when the guard came through he tried to stir it up again. I didn't even take the buds out this time although I could hear what he was saying. The guard asked for my ticket, checked it, smiled to me and carried on. I think he was just grateful that I hadn't started an argument with the old guy.

 

[Flamingo]

If its the only place left with seats then I will use it and if my phone rings so be it. I'm not standing when thats the only remaining seats.

There are no RULES to quiet coaches, just that you show consideration. If that gets flouted then there's no railway bylaw that's broken.

There is a bylaw against causing disturbance to other passengers. Plus, it's hard to continue your call when the guard is leaning down over you repeatedly saying "this is the mobile phone free carriage, please move out you selfish git" over and over (this does work, I've tried it on somebody using the same arguement).

 

[Greenback]

If its the only place left with seats then I will use it and if my phone rings so be it. I'm not standing when thats the only remaining seats.

There are no RULES to quiet coaches, just that you show consideration. If that gets flouted then there's no railway bylaw that's broken.

So you won't you turn your phone off or to silent mode? Or have the courtesy to move into the vestibule if you simply must make or take a call?

 

[krisk]

If theres nowhere else to go on the train then no. However I can have a conversation with someone without it causing disturbance to others and that is where the issue lies, it isnt a problem being on the phone but the fact that certain people can't have a quiet call without everyone else being able to hear. Hence the invention of the QC.

 

[RPM]

Talking of blocking the mobile phone signal, this was actually tried by Chiltern about 12 years ago when the class 168/0s were introduced. The windows in the quiet carriage were fitted with a special film that blocked the signal but unfortunately it didn't work at all. IIRC the issue was with the aluminium vehicle body acting as a giant aeriel or something like that. The whole thing was then quietly dropped.

 

[SS4]

If theres nowhere else to go on the train then no. However I can have a conversation with someone without it causing disturbance to others and that is where the issue lies, it isnt a problem being on the phone but the fact that certain people can't have a quiet call without everyone else being able to hear. Hence the invention of the QC.

The problem lies in that certain people as you say think they're not disturbing anyone when they are.

 

[krisk]

It's called having manners to not need to shout down a phone Dom Joly style. People have louder conversations, people have kids, people tap away on laptops. It's all noise.

Scrap the QC

 

[transmanche]

As for people talking LOUD on their mobiles, this seems to be a very British thing. I have been on trains in such countries as Germany and Holland. And from my experiences, very few people talk on their mobiles on public transport in these countries. Of the few who do, the people talk on them at a quiet volume as I guess they do not want the whole carriage to hear their conversation. Not only that, but the duration of the phone calls are usually much much shorter too.

I had a couple of trips on a TGV Duplex recently. I don't know if they have special quiet coaches (there were no announcements about any), but each coach I used had this simple blue sticker in it. And no-one used their phone in the carriage. In fact no-one even talked loudly in the carriage.

In the vestibule, was a little cubbyhole & seat with the yellow sticker. And this is where people went to make their phone calls.

All perfectly civilised and universally respected.

 

[Greenback]

It's called having manners to not need to shout down a phone Dom Joly style. People have louder conversations, people have kids, people tap away on laptops. It's all noise.

Scrap the QC

I don't see any need to scrap it just because a minority refuse to observe the polite requests not to do certain things. We might as well do away with all laws as people keep breaking them anyway.

 

[chris89]

If theres nowhere else to go on the train then no. However I can have a conversation with someone without it causing disturbance to others and that is where the issue lies, it isnt a problem being on the phone but the fact that certain people can't have a quiet call without everyone else being able to hear. Hence the invention of the QC.

No excuse though. Even if the train is busy it doesn't mean to completely ignore the guidelines laid down for the quite coach though.

You may say you talk quietly on the phone, but other people may disagree on that overall. If you receive or want to make a phone call just go to the vestibule as is easy to do so and other passengers will not mind that.

When i have used the Quiet coach and i make a call or get one from the other half, i just get up and go to the vestibule as rather be kind to other passengers then be rude and ignore them.

For those moaning about children most of them are very well behaved and there due to reservation systems. When i was younger and my parents used rail a lot to rather London or Up to Aviemore they preferred to go in the quiet coach due to lower amount of noise. Me and my brother were never noisy and just kept ourself occipued by looking out the window or magazines etc.

 

[aspierail]

No not really leave it as it is.

 

[krisk]

So I have a window seat, someone sits next to me. I have to ask them to move every time I want to make or take a call?

How did we all cope before quiet coaches eh?

 

[SS4]

So I have a window seat, someone sits next to me. I have to ask them to move every time I want to make or take a call?

How did we all cope before quiet coaches eh?

With the implied frequency you should ask yourself why you're sitting in the quiet zone. If the train is full surely you'd have an aisle seat.

 

[WelshBluebird]

With the implied frequency you should ask yourself why you're sitting in the quiet zone.

Maybe because the rest of the train is full?

If the train is full surely you'd have an aisle seat.

Doesn't work like that. Indeed on the train I get to and from work, most of the spare seats are the window seats. Some passengers have a bad habit of sitting in the aisle seat when the window seat is free, and refusing to move over to the window seat when someone wants the spare seat (instead you have to ask them to move out of the way so you can sit in the window seat, and they can have their aisle seat back).

 

[Greenback]

Doesn't work like that. Indeed on the train I get to and from work, most of the spare seats are the window seats. Some passengers have a bad habit of sitting in the aisle seat when the window seat is free, and refusing to move over to the window seat when someone wants the spare seat (instead you have to ask them to move out of the way so you can sit in the window seat, and they can have their aisle seat back).

Well, if someone has deliberately chosen an aisle seat rather than a window seat, one of the consequences of that decisionis that someone else will want to get in and out of the window seat!

It doesn't matter how it's dressed up by krisk, or whatever case is built up to try and justify behaviour that is impolite, there is no reason to do away with quiet coaches.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Well, if someone has deliberately chosen an aisle seat rather than a window seat, one of the consequences of that decisionis that someone else will want to get in and out of the window seat!

It doesn't matter how it's dressed up by krisk, or whatever case is built up to try and justify behaviour that is impolite, there is no reason to do away with quiet coaches.

I don't think they should be done away with, but I do think that sometimes when the train is quite busy the rules should be relaxed (just as first class coaches are sometimes declassified).

 

[Greenback]

I don't think they should be done away with, but I do think that sometimes when the train is quite busy the rules should be relaxed (just as first class coaches are sometimes declassified).

Sorry, I didn't mean you as such, my comment was more directed towards krisk and the others who want them abolished!

It may be difficult to relax the 'rules', as in my experience it's usually the passengers themselves that police the quiet carriage. This is why we have the statements here about passengers rudely objecting to noise that others thibnk is reasonable.

If you add in the bit about trains being quite busy, then that adds yet another layer of subjectivity that is probably best avoided. At the moment the quiet coach guidance is pretty clear, at least on FGW.

 

[JohnB57]

Well I loathe people using mobiles in a quiet coach and would prefer the people using mobiles in them to travel elsewhere in the train. I see no reason why I should empathise with someone who can't empathise with other people's desire not to have to listen to their phone conversations - and who have chosen to sit in a quiet coach for that reason.

'I too like to travel in peace and quiet' - in which case, why on earth are you making a song and dance about quiet coaches?

And how do you define a 'sensible short and necessary phone conversation'.

On the basis you outline, who could possibly object to someone using their mobile in a cinema or a theatre? Should I have to pay extra to go to a phone-free screening or performance?

As for 'Communication has changed since the inception of the quiet coach'. No it hasn't. They were introduced (by the GW management buyout team pre-First Group's takeover, I think) precisely because of the advent of mobiles.

I'm not making a song and dance. I'm making a fair point, from my own experience that just doesn't happen to chime completely with your own. I have made my point rationally and in reasonable language. I'm 55 years old, well travelled, using all modes for both business and leisure and I have seen and heard all of the things you all mention and much more. Whereas I get much less tolerant of inconsiderate behaviour, I am actually more tolerant of people's changing and differing needs and would go out of my way to help anyone who needed and deserved it.

A "neccessary" conversation would, for example, be one arranging a time to be collected at the station, conducted over the minimum time at normal speaking volume. If you can't empathise with that, I really believe it's your problem. And if you (plural - various posters) need help defining reasonable behaviour, maybe it's you who should review how you interface with the rest of us.

Silly point on the cinema. I know you can do better than that...

Mobile communication has changed out of all proportion in the last half dozen years. Smart phones etc have "revolutionised" it through, for example, social networking and increased exponentially the dependance people have on their phones. Whereas I fully accept that there are silent text and data modes, most of society now views any form of mobile use as a right, nay obligation anywhere. I'm not one of them - too old for that - and I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's how it is and if peace and quiet was so important, I'd be willing to pay a supplement for a quiet coach in which the rules were clearly understood, because everyone else had paid the supplement too. That is my main point and I'm struggling to understand why it's such a problem.

 

[SS4]

I'm not making a song and dance. I'm making a fair point, from my own experience that just doesn't happen to chime completely with your own. I have made my point rationally and in reasonable language. I'm 55 years old, well travelled, using all modes for both business and leisure and I have seen and heard all of the things you all mention and much more. Whereas I get much less tolerant of inconsiderate behaviour, I am actually more tolerant of people's changing and differing needs and would go out of my way to help anyone who needed and deserved it.

A "necessary" conversation would, for example, be one arranging a time to be collected at the station, conducted over the minimum time at normal speaking volume. If you can't empathise with that, I really believe it's your problem. And if you (plural - various posters) need help defining reasonable behaviour, maybe it's you who should review how you interface with the rest of us.

Silly point on the cinema. I know you can do better than that...

Mobile communication has changed out of all proportion in the last half dozen years. Smart phones etc have "revolutionised" it through, for example, social networking and increased exponentially the dependance people have on their phones. Whereas I fully accept that there are silent text and data modes, most of society now views any form of mobile use as a right, nay obligation anywhere. I'm not one of them - too old for that - and I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's how it is and if peace and quiet was so important, I'd be willing to pay a supplement for a quiet coach in which the rules were clearly understood, because everyone else had paid the supplement too. That is my main point and I'm struggling to understand why it's such a problem.

Well raised points. I don't think many people would object if some consideration was shown; low/normal voice and over ASAP - the objection on my part is inane chatter and high pitched squealing (adults and children). For further clarification I define inane to be pretty much anything that isn't an personal/family emergency thus encompassing business calls*. Out of interest would you define a business call (to a client) as necessary?

There's a slight difference between necessary conversations and the medium used to hold them though. In your example whilst a call is typically the best medium a text would work fine and may even be better if meeting at a specific place as the recipient could refer back to it.

It seems odd to lay the most vitriol of those using phones, in my experiences music, whether through overly poor headphones or a cheap and tinny speaker, is more frustrating since calls are generally over quickly but music (and it's never good music) could, and does, last the entire journey.

edit:
* For clarification I meant that I would include business calls as unnecessary

 

[Greenback]

I'd be willing to pay a supplement for a quiet coach in which the rules were clearly understood, because everyone else had paid the supplement too. That is my main point and I'm struggling to understand why it's such a problem.

Well, here are my thoughts on supplements. The most obvious problem, I think, what would be how the supplements should be calculated. Should it be a flat fee or zonally, or as a % of the fare?

Secondly, what happens if, or should that be when, someone gets on board and is unaware that they are in a quiet coach (happens all the time now) or that there is a supplement to pay? Perhaps they will not be asked to pay anything, perhaps the guard will not get round to them until most of their journey is completed. What if they refuse to pay the supplement?

Thirdly, what if a passenger who has paid the supplement feels that the quiet coach hasn;t been quiet enough? How is that to be defined? or will it just be a case that if you bother to complain you will get your money back?

What if the hypothetical dispute between the guard and the passenger in the paragraph above disturbs the rest of the carriage? Is that incentive not to bother pushing for the supplement from that person? Would the revenue collected cover refunding the people in the rest of the coach?

I think that the above points illustrate some of the difficulties in intorducing such a charge, and how it is probably not worth TOC's while to do it. And that's before thinking of how the introduction of such a supplement may alienate some passengers, or lead to overcrowding in other parts of the train.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think many people would object if some consideration was shown; low/normal voice and over ASAP

I agree. In fact, if someone made a call using hushed tones many people would not even be aware of it, so no problem at all would arise.

Unfortunately, once others become aware there is the potential for conflict, and most people seem unable to speak quietly on the phone.

However, it would be correct to say that I am more concerned about noise than the means of generating it.

Out of interest would you define a business call (to a client) as necessary?

Generally speaking no, though I can see why some would be necessary in certain circumstances. But then we are back to the problem of it being very subjective, much as the term 'reasonable' is.

There's a slight difference between necessary conversations and the medium used to hold them though. In your example whilst a call is typically the best medium a text would work fine and may even be better if meeting at a specific place as the recipient could refer back to it.

That is very true.

 

[Stigy]

The problem is, people tend to shout when on a mobile phone, especially when they lose reception or something. It's not acceptable to expect no talking at all (ignoring mobile phones), as it's not practical, especially when a lot of the talking is on-board announcements from Guards or of the automated type. Normal talking shouldn't be a problem considering all the other noises around.

Apologies if this has been said, haven't read all pages!

 

[Greenback]

The problem is, people tend to shout when on a mobile phone, especially when they lose reception or something. It's not acceptable to expect no talking at all, as it's not practical, especially when a lot of the talking is on-board announcements from Guards or of the automated type. Normal talking shouldn't be a problem considering all the other noises around.

I agree that some talking should be expected, and I think that there are too many on board announcements in any case. But I think the expectation of a quiet coach is that talking should be done quietly!

 

[krisk]

So a first class coach gets declassed and people in there get moved to the quiet coach. Can you then expect them not to use their phone, its not there fault they have had to move.

 

[Greenback]

So a first class coach gets declassed and people in there get moved to the quiet coach. Can you then expect them not to use their phone, its not there fault they have had to move.

Why should people who have paid for a first class ticket be moved into standard so that people in standard can sit in first? Or are you talking about people in the declassified first class coach?

If the latter, I'd say it was their choice whether to move, and accept the restriction, or not.

It does seem as though you are increasingly desperate to dream up situations where disregarding the niceties of the quiet coach can be justified.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I think krisk means the 1st Class Quiet Coach on VT (Coach H on Pendolinos), similar also now exists on EC.

 

[krisk]

Correct. But in the event of disruption, and G is declassed then those that move should they be subjected to the QC "rules" when they haven't wanted to sit there to start with?

 

[Seacook]

So a first class coach gets declassed and people in there get moved to the quiet coach. Can you then expect them not to use their phone, its not there fault they have had to move.

If you are seated in a first class coach which is then declassified it is not compulsory to move. If the only options are the declassified coach or the FC quiet coach then it simply comes down to the passenger's priorities. If making phone calls is the most important thing then you do not move; if travelling in FC is more important then you move and try not to make a noise. I don't see that as a problem.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Correct. But in the event of disruption, and G is declassed then those that move should they be subjected to the QC "rules" when they haven't wanted to sit there to start with?

Why not? They are intruding on the people who did want to sit in the QC.

 

[Starmill]

For my own tuppence worth I never specifically sit in the quite coach (unless it is the only place with seats), I simply board the standard class end of the train and sit down (the obvious priority). If someone is annoying me because they are too being loud, I would do exactly what I would if they were annoying me in any other way (swearing or being offensive, being too drunk whatever): get up and walk to another carriage. I appreciate that this is not feasible if the train is overcrowded, but then surely the overcrowding is the issue and not the noise? You have clear grounds to complain to the TOC. Seat reservations pose another problem to this, but its not the worst thing about them: I've just booked a return MAN-EUS and lo and behold, no window view on either journey (Pendo, Coach B 18 and Coach B 07). Intensively annoying, but there is nothing I can do about it nor think of a solution to the problem.

Sums up life pretty well really doesn't it, that ?

 

[DarloRich]

I'm not making a song and dance. I'm making a fair point, from my own experience that just doesn't happen to chime completely with your own. I have made my point rationally and in reasonable language. I'm 55 years old, well travelled, using all modes for both business and leisure and I have seen and heard all of the things you all mention and much more. Whereas I get much less tolerant of inconsiderate behaviour, I am actually more tolerant of people's changing and differing needs and would go out of my way to help anyone who needed and deserved it.

A "neccessary" conversation would, for example, be one arranging a time to be collected at the station, conducted over the minimum time at normal speaking volume. If you can't empathise with that, I really believe it's your problem. And if you (plural - various posters) need help defining reasonable behaviour, maybe it's you who should review how you interface with the rest of us.

Silly point on the cinema. I know you can do better than that...

Mobile communication has changed out of all proportion in the last half dozen years. Smart phones etc have "revolutionised" it through, for example, social networking and increased exponentially the dependance people have on their phones. Whereas I fully accept that there are silent text and data modes, most of society now views any form of mobile use as a right, nay obligation anywhere. I'm not one of them - too old for that - and I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's how it is and if peace and quiet was so important, I'd be willing to pay a supplement for a quiet coach in which the rules were clearly understood, because everyone else had paid the supplement too. That is my main point and I'm struggling to understand why it's such a problem.

I disagree - the rules state no phone calls therefore if you need to make a "necessary" phone call, and lets be honest most people don't but just like to wibble on about any old shi*e, do it in the vestibule.

I don't care if people think it is important to call. It is the quiet coach. There is a hint in the bloody name! Make you call in the vestibule as the rules state.

God forbid you might not be able to call home FROM YOUR SEAT!!!!!!!! and say "I am 5 minutes late". imagine that! I mean having your loved ones have to wait 5 minutes extra in the car park listening to the radio. Imagine having to step into the vestibule in order to comply with the rules and make life a touch nicer for the rest of us.

Or send a text