Should the railway remove the requirement to need a photocard for weekly and monthly season tickets?

[swt class 450]

Is it time that the railways get rid of the ridiculous requirement to need a photocard to purchase weekly and monthly season tickets?

It just makes the weekly and monthly tickets so inconvenient as you have to get a photocard first and then you always have to remember to carry it with you when you travel. It would be so much more simple to able to just easily purchase a weekly or monthly ticket just like a Single/Return/Day ticket without having to worry about photocards or anything.

I work as a bus driver for small independent bus operator and we sell a full range of weekly and monthly tickets (issued as ordinary paper tickets from the ticket machine) onboard the bus with no photocard or id required. It is the same as buying a Single/Return/Day ticket

Most Arriva/First/Stagecoach services and many other bus operators all over the UK do exactly the same and sell weekly and monthly tickets onboard without any photocard or id required just like with Single/Return/Day tickets.

So if it is not required for buses then why do train companies insist on people having a photocard to buy weekly and monthly tickets? Is there any reason why train companies have this policy?

What do you all think? Is it time to allow passengers to purchase and use weekly and monthly season tickets without a photocard?

 

[PermitToTravel]

Week/month/annual tickets on Oyster don't need photocards

 

[Hadders]

Ideally it would be a good idea but you have to balance the revenue loss of people giving these season tickets to friends and relatives to use.

 

[Andrew1395]

The photocard is from an age where the norm was barrier inspections by staff. With modern ticketing and more automated examination of tickets it makes little sense. Personally I see no problem with sharing season tickets. They can only be used by one person at a time, and are fully paid up. No one minds that I don't use my season ticket at the weekend.

 

[JohnR]

As we move to smartcards, I can see the photo element being incorporated into the smart card.

 

[father_jack]

As we move to smartcards, I can see the photo element being incorporated into the smart card.

I am involved in smartcard implementation, starting with weekly seasons but a pertinent point came up almost immediately- the pink photocard still MUST be carried !

 

[Bertie the bus]

It just makes the weekly and monthly tickets so inconvenient as you have to get a photocard first and then you always have to remember to carry it with you when you travel. It would be so much more simple to able to just easily purchase a weekly or monthly ticket just like a Single/Return/Day ticket without having to worry about photocards or anything.

Those things aren’t issues. You only need to get the photocard once and you get a wallet to put both your photocard and ticket in. How is that an inconvenience?

 

[Mojo]

A few years ago the requirement for a Photocard with paper Inboundary Travelcards was withdrawn but not very long after was reinstated due to a large number of counterfeit tickets being used.

The photocard is from an age where the norm was barrier inspections by staff. With modern ticketing and more automated examination of tickets it makes little sense. Personally I see no problem with sharing season tickets. They can only be used by one person at a time, and are fully paid up. No one minds that I don't use my season ticket at the weekend.

Ideally it would be a good idea but you have to balance the revenue loss of people giving these season tickets to friends and relatives to use.

I think the concern is not so much the exchange of an individual ticket but the possibility of a ticket being reported lost or stolen but sold or given to another person, the original ticket holder then getting a replacement ticket issued for their own use and the original ticket that was reported missing but not actually missing then being used by another person. With Oyster the original ticket can be blacklisted however on paper tickets it can still be used.

 

[kristiang85]

When I bought my SWR smartcard it didn't ask for a photocard. I only got one when i gave up on the smartcard as it never worked, so I got a paper ticket and was asked for a photocard (which I didn't have).

In nearly a year of using season tickets, I've yet to be asked for a photocard whilst having my ticket checked.

To be honest, it is a pretty pointless piece of bureaucracy. And indeed I don't think there would be too much revenue loss; I think it would be fine to allow seasons to be transferable as only one can be used at a time.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think realistically this could be dropped when smartcards replace paper seasons, as it would mean that a second version of the ticket cannot be in circulation, as if reported lost the existing one can be blacklisted, and if forgotten it wouldn't be hard to establish if it was used or not to refund a day ticket.

Bus companies don't seem to have issues with de-facto transferrable short-period season tickets.

 

[gordonthemoron]

When I lived in Munich, you could get an annual local transport ticket which was transferrable but if you lost it would not be replaced or one for a named person only, in which case if you lost it would be replaced. I think they were the same price but I could be wrong. There was no photocard for the second but you had to show id if stopped by revenue protection

 

[robbeech]

Bus companies don't seem to have issues with de-facto transferrable short-period season tickets.

Whilst there are exceptions, a lot of these tickets whilst expensive over the course of a year may only be a couple of quid a day. I appreciate some train season tickets are the same but there is huge potential for them to be several hundred pounds per day for the very extreme cases.

 

[Mojo]

Whilst there are exceptions, a lot of these tickets whilst expensive over the course of a year may only be a couple of quid a day. I appreciate some train season tickets are the same but there is huge potential for them to be several hundred pounds per day for the very extreme cases.

Also, what bus companies offer refunds or replacements on these tickets purchased onboard? Just having a look on both the ARRIVA and First websites, they state that if the ticket is lost then they cannot help. Stagecoach says it is at the discretion of the local operator.

 

[robbeech]

Also, what bus companies offer refunds or replacements on these tickets purchased onboard? Just having a look on both the ARRIVA and First websites, they state that if the ticket is lost then they cannot help. Stagecoach says it is at the discretion of the local operator.

It’s unlikely any of them will offer compensation if you are late either.

 

[sprunt]

I think the concern is not so much the exchange of an individual ticket but the possibility of a ticket being reported lost or stolen but sold or given to another person, the original ticket holder then getting a replacement ticket issued for their own use and the original ticket that was reported missing but not actually missing then being used by another person. With Oyster the original ticket can be blacklisted however on paper tickets it can still be used.

This could be a concern even without any dishonesty on the part of the legitimate holder - a genuinely lost ticket ticket could be found by someone who then uses it in the absence of a photocard.

 

[PeterC]

Those things aren’t issues. You only need to get the photocard once and you get a wallet to put both your photocard and ticket in. How is that an inconvenience?

I always carried photocard and ticket in facing sections of the same wallet. I also fail to understand why anybody should find it "inconvenient".

Remember when seasons issued to women were stamped with a large "W"?

 

[robbeech]

Remember when seasons issued to women were stamped with a large "W"?

I must admit I don’t remember this but I am trying to picture the debacle that would ensue from giving that a go today.

 

[mallard]

It would be a start if the railway allowed the use of the same photocards for railcards and for season tickets. Really silly that you have to have seperate "ID" documents issued by the same authority for different uses...

Also, accepting government-issued ID, such as a driving licence or even passport instead of a photocard would be nice; only issue a photocard to customers who don't have/don't want to carry another form of recognised photo ID.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I am involved in smartcard implementation, starting with weekly seasons but a pertinent point came up almost immediately- the pink photocard still MUST be carried !

Do you attend the RDG Friday afternoon meetings as Im sure that’s not the case

 

[father_jack]

Do you attend the RDG Friday afternoon meetings as Im sure that’s not the case

I'm not that far up (or down !) the food chain, sorry !!! It was emphasised that should anyone take up the smartcard the photocard is still obligatory until the RDG make a change.

 

[Haywain]

There was no photocard for the second but you had to show id if stopped by revenue protection

That, of course, is all very well in a country with a national ID card. Here in the UK we have no such thing and therefore the photocard serves a very basic form of the same thing.

 

[Deerfold]

I am involved in smartcard implementation, starting with weekly seasons but a pertinent point came up almost immediately- the pink photocard still MUST be carried !

Interesting. When M-Card smartcards replaced Metrocards for Bus and Train travel in West Yorkshire they dropped the photocard and even advertise them as being transferable - including the Annual version.

 

[Haywain]

I'm not that far up (or down !) the food chain, sorry !!! It was emphasised that should anyone take up the smartcard the photocard is still obligatory until the RDG make a change.

Which TOC has emphasised that?

 

[talldave]

I am involved in smartcard implementation, starting with weekly seasons but a pertinent point came up almost immediately- the pink photocard still MUST be carried !

If true, that's brain numbingly stupid, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, bearing in mind how useless TOCs are with technology.

 

[alistairlees]

If true, that's brain numbingly stupid, but it wouldn't surprise me at all, bearing in mind how useless TOCs are with technology.

It's not true

 

[gordonthemoron]

That, of course, is all very well in a country with a national ID card. Here in the UK we have no such thing and therefore the photocard serves a very basic form of the same thing.

I just used my UK driving licence

 

[father_jack]

Which TOC has emphasised that?

GWR.
NRCoT said-

36.3. Unless you are specifically advised otherwise at the time of purchase, a Season Ticket must be supported by a photocard which bears a true likeness of the user. Photocards may be obtained free of charge at staffed station Ticket offices on production of a passport sized photograph

 

[dtaylor84]

As we move to smartcards, I can see the photo element being incorporated into the smart card.

ScotRail already do this.