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Should the young shield?

Should the young shield instead of the old?

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 6.7%
  • No

    Votes: 98 93.3%

  • Total voters
    105
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DB

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And to say it was totally unnecessary is ridiculous. While it is true that it has been found that the impact of the virus on the young is generally insignificant, that is with the benefit of hindsight.

It's really not ridiculous, and that's not with the benefit of hindsight either - it was pretty clear months ago what the risk profile was.
 

Belperpete

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If something untoward happens under normal circumstances then they can get special consideration for their exams - they still sit them but the circumstances are taken into account when grades are issued. Please don't underestimate the significance of this virus on those in school, it's not a simple life lesson that life is unfair. Many have learned that already in ways that would make you really cringe; far worse than anything listed above. I wish people would actually think before making these statements, almost no-one on this forum has had their childhood disrupted in the way that the current generation have. To be honest most of them are dealing with it very maturely but for some it is a real issue. A little more empathy rather than trot out the Victorian life lesson would help. Thank you.
I had a friend who was unable to sit several exams due to exam phobia - he was physically sick and had to abandon several of them. He was given no special consideration - he had to resit the exams in the autumn. My parents separated shortly before I took my exams - I was given no special consideration (I don't think the school was even aware). Nobody went around wringing their hands and wailing about how unfair it all was. Life is unfair, we were expected to deal with it. Such situations aren't helped by irresponsible adults "bigging it up", making a mountain out of a molehill, like some seem to be doing now.

To be clear, the children are all getting their grades. Some will do better, some will do worse than hoped. That is life.
 

Richard Scott

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I had a friend who was unable to sit several exams due to exam phobia - he was physically sick and had to abandon several of them. He was given no special consideration - he had to resit the exams in the autumn. My parents separated shortly before I took my exams - I was given no special consideration (I don't think the school was even aware). Nobody went around wringing their hands and wailing about how unfair it all was. Life is unfair, we were expected to deal with it. Such situations aren't helped by irresponsible adults "bigging it up", making a mountain out of a molehill, like some seem to be doing now.

To be clear, the children are all getting their grades. Some will do better, some will do worse than hoped. That is life.
We all have stories/things that happened to us etc and maybe special consideration wasn't around then but it is now. That's because we're probably more sensitive to issues now hence mental health awareness etc, which a few years ago you were just told to man up.
It isn't making a mountain out of a molehill, it's far from a molehill for majority of those concerned. If anything the only mountains and molehills are the politicians handling of this whole virus issue and not restricted just to UK.
 

Belperpete

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We all have stories/things that happened to us etc and maybe special consideration wasn't around then but it is now. That's because we're probably more sensitive to issues now hence mental health awareness etc, which a few years ago you were just told to man up.
And suicide rates in children were nowhere near as high as they are now too. And that is largely because adults then taught their children to deal with life. That involves supporting them in dealing with issues - not whinging about how unfair it might be.

And I repeat - this is not unfair - all the children who were expecting to take exams are in the same boat. If anything, it is fairer than normal.
 

AdamWW

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And I repeat - this is not unfair - all the children who were expecting to take exams are in the same boat. If anything, it is fairer than normal.

I think you have a different definition of unfair to me.

They are all in the same boat, but people who took different strategies that would have worked out the same in the end are likely to end up with different grades.

If they just pulled grades out of a hat for everyone I would argue that would be unfair, but your definition would seem to count that as fair because everyone would be awarded their grades in the same way.
 

BJames

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I had a friend who was unable to sit several exams due to exam phobia - he was physically sick and had to abandon several of them. He was given no special consideration - he had to resit the exams in the autumn. My parents separated shortly before I took my exams - I was given no special consideration (I don't think the school was even aware). Nobody went around wringing their hands and wailing about how unfair it all was. Life is unfair, we were expected to deal with it. Such situations aren't helped by irresponsible adults "bigging it up", making a mountain out of a molehill, like some seem to be doing now.

To be clear, the children are all getting their grades. Some will do better, some will do worse than hoped. That is life.
Bolded bit - having completed sixth form last year and GCSEs in 2017, I'm recently out of the system. Noting the posts above, I just want to add mine to say that what you've said nobody used to do is exactly what many many students are doing all the time - in a normal year. I can imagine what it's like now - it's frustrating enough at University.

Exam stress is usually accounted for by making reasonable adjustments, such as extra time or a smaller room to try and reduce the fear of exams. Then when you get to Sixth Form or College, you can take subjects such as those offered under BTEC programs without the need for exams. There are ways around it.

Life is unfair BUT this year is clearly different. Some will do better, some will do worse - while some work consistently throughout, some students work really hard towards the end of their courses in the period of (usually) February/March to May/June - i.e. around the time of lockdown which caused an immense amount of stress for many. They may have come out of their exams better had they had that prep time - but we'll never know either way.

I get why they've cancelled exams but AQA's website suggests that there is an option to resit next year (https://www.aqa.org.uk/coronavirus) if students are unhappy - that's certainly good.

And suicide rates in children were nowhere near as high as they are now too. And that is largely because adults then taught their children to deal with life. That involves supporting them in dealing with issues - not whinging about how unfair it might be.

And I repeat - this is not unfair - all the children who were expecting to take exams are in the same boat. If anything, it is fairer than normal.
I do agree that the system needs a bit of an overhaul to be honest. But I'm not convinced it's fairer than normal - exams are blind marked while teachers are using their own judgement and a completely new system to decide grades that will either get students into university or not (or whatever they decide to do with the next stage of their life).
 

Richard Scott

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And suicide rates in children were nowhere near as high as they are now too. And that is largely because adults then taught their children to deal with life. That involves supporting them in dealing with issues - not whinging about how unfair it might be.

And I repeat - this is not unfair - all the children who were expecting to take exams are in the same boat. If anything, it is fairer than normal.
Believe me it's not, I work in education and it isn't as fair this year. This is nothing to do with being taught life is fair/unfair. As I said earlier there are plenty of kids who know that already and too many who've had extremely nasty experiences in their life, too unthinkable to write here. I wish people would stop trying to justify their views based on their lives. Whether you think it's fair or not isn't the point. Kids who should have taken their exams are in a worse position than if they'd been allowed to. Afraid that's a fact nothing to doing with fair/unfair, learning life lessons or whatever you want to call it. I'd appreciate it if everyone could take it on board, show a bit of empathy and stop harking back to their days. Thank you.
 

Belperpete

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I think you have a different definition of unfair to me.
They are all in the same boat, but people who took different strategies that would have worked out the same in the end are likely to end up with different grades.
There is only one strategy that works - you learn the subject as you go along. In my experience of teaching, those who think they can idle the best part of a course away and rely on somehow pulling it all back in the last few weeks are deluded. Yes, they may well be aggrieved that they didn't get the chance to try and do so, but the reality is that they would have failed even if given the opportunity.
 

Belperpete

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Kids who should have taken their exams are in a worse position than if they'd been allowed to. Afraid that's a fact nothing to doing with fair/unfair, learning life lessons or whatever you want to call it. I'd appreciate it if everyone could take it on board, show a bit of empathy and stop harking back to their days. Thank you.
Agreed, a minority of kids who were expecting to take exams are in a worse position. In a normal year, a minority of kids who would be expecting to take exams and who now no longer need to do so are in a better position. Swings and roundabouts.

I would appreciate it if people would stop making a mountain out of a molehill. Unnecessarily bigging up the issue will certainly do nothing to help the mental health of those who are adversely affected. Thank you.
 

bramling

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There is only one strategy that works - you learn the subject as you go along. In my experience of teaching, those who think they can idle the best part of a course away and rely on somehow pulling it all back in the last few weeks are deluded. Yes, they may well be aggrieved that they didn't get the chance to try and do so, but the reality is that they would have failed even if given the opportunity.

That sort of attitude is why I was predicted to fail a particular subject, and actually came out with a letter from the exam board saying I’d scored one of their highest scores that year?

I’m afraid I completely disagree with your thinking on this. You may well be right that people need to pick up the subject through the year, but that doesn’t mean every pupil demonstrates that to their teachers.

This really is an extremely cruel way of showing children that life isn’t fair, and in my view it’s bang out of order when there’s no way to right it.

I really don’t think it is mountain out of molehill. Thinking back to my school days, I can’t begin to think how angry and upset I’d be if in this position.
 

Belperpete

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This really is an extremely cruel way of showing children that life isn’t fair, and in my view it’s bang out of order when there’s no way to right it.
Except that there is a way to right it. If you don't get the grades you need, you can sit the exam in the autumn. As has always been the case for those who, for whatever reason, don't get the grades they need.

Those who keep encouraging the young to whinge on about how unfair life is, and how upset they should be about it, are really not doing them any favours at all.
 

Richard Scott

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Agreed, a minority of kids who were expecting to take exams are in a worse position. In a normal year, a minority of kids who would be expecting to take exams and who now no longer need to do so are in a better position. Swings and roundabouts.

I would appreciate it if people would stop making a mountain out of a molehill. Unnecessarily bigging up the issue will certainly do nothing to help the mental health of those who are adversely affected. Thank you.
I'm sorry but disagree, there are very few that I know of who will be in a better position. Will you stop refering to making mountains out of molehills? Whilst this isn't the worst issue ever to some it is significant as they've worked very hard to get to the stage where they were going to take their exams and this sort of attitude is just patronising. No-one is bigging up the issue as it is an issue that should be discussed. A few people discussing it on a forum is not going to affect mental health of those involved is it? I'm sure almost all of those involved will get over it but that doesn't make it right.
 

takno

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Except that there is a way to right it. If you don't get the grades you need, you can sit the exam in the autumn. As has always been the case for those who, for whatever reason, don't get the grades they need.

Those who keep encouraging the young to whinge on about how unfair life is, and how upset they should be about it, are really not doing them any favours at all.
Your rabid anti-child stance really doesn't cast you in a good light. In particular though, I'm not convinced this is a credible position. In normal years a very small proportion of students are affected in a way that leads them to repeat their exams. For the most part this leads to a few months of extra study and then most of the year spent gaining experience of the world of.work or doing something more gap-yearish.

This year the number of young people wanting to do this may well overwhelm the ability of the education system to offer it, and instead of being able to go into work afterwards they will likely have to fall back on their parents or the grim remnants of the welfare state for the under 25s.
 

bramling

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Except that there is a way to right it. If you don't get the grades you need, you can sit the exam in the autumn. As has always been the case for those who, for whatever reason, don't get the grades they need.

Those who keep encouraging the young to whinge on about how unfair life is, and how upset they should be about it, are really not doing them any favours at all.

I’m not encouraging the young to whinge on about how unfair life is, however I am certainly standing by the point that this particular issue is very much unfair to two specific groups of youngsters (I’m avoiding a third group, those at university, as I’m less clear what’s going on there).

It’s all very well saying people can re-sit, but how is that going to help someone who has now been denied entry to a sixth form based on their GCSE grades being below benchmark? I still remember the effect this had on some of my colleagues two decades ago, both on the day when they got the bad news, and over time as their hopes were wrecked - that was bad enough even as part of a process which was completely fair and consistent, unlike now where goalposts were moved with zero notice or opportunity to adapt.

If it’s so easy to re-sit why didn’t we simply arrange for the two year groups concerned to simply be doing all the exams over the autumn?

Opening those envelopes is a nerve-wracking experience in itself, and for some the moments which follow really are heartbreaking. This isn’t tea and sympathy, it’s reality. For every other year group at least those who didn’t achieve what they were hoping for can rest assured that their grades genuinely reflected their own performance, as opposed to being based on a mock which no one thought at the time would count, or worse their grades being based on a teacher’s opinion of them rather their own achievement. Quite simply it sucks.
 
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43066

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Except that there is a way to right it. If you don't get the grades you need, you can sit the exam in the autumn. As has always been the case for those who, for whatever reason, don't get the grades they need.

Those who keep encouraging the young to whinge on about how unfair life is, and how upset they should be about it, are really not doing them any favours at all.

I must say this strikes me as a somewhat unsympathetic and blasé attitude

What about if those grades are being relied upon to secure a sixth form or university place? Unless things have changed radically since the early 2000s, you would need to get the grades specified in the Spring “exam season”, and then start the course in September or October. Re-sitting in the Autumn would necessitate an unscheduled year out.

As for being awarded a grade based on what your teachers think - what an absolute cop out! Give me an exam any day.

I can well remember how stressful those years were, even during normal times. That’s certainly not something I’d want to be going through in 2020 - and by all accounts the university experience is being systematically ruined, also.
 
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Cowley

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I’m not encouraging the young to whinge on about how unfair life is, however I am certainly standing by the point that this particular issue is very much unfair to two specific groups of youngsters (I’m avoiding a third group, those at university, as I’m less clear what’s going on there).

It’s all very well saying people can re-sit, but how is that going to help someone who has now been denied entry to a sixth form based on their GCSE grades being below benchmark? I still remember the effect this had on some of my colleagues two decades ago, both on the day when they got the bad news, and over time as their hopes were wrecked - that was bad enough even as part of a process which was completely fair and consistent, unlike now where goalposts were moved with zero notice or opportunity to adapt.

If it’s so easy to re-sit why didn’t we simply arrange for the two year groups concerned to simply be doing all the exams over the autumn?

Opening those envelopes is a nerve-wracking experience in itself, and for some the moments which follow really are heartbreaking. This isn’t tea and sympathy, it’s reality. For every other year group at least those who didn’t achieve what they were hoping for can rest assured that their grades genuinely reflected their own performance, as opposed to being based on a mock which no one thought at the time would count, or worse their grades being based on a teacher’s opinion of them rather their own achievement. Quite simply it sucks.
Well said.
 

Bletchleyite

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Kids who should have taken their exams are in a worse position than if they'd been allowed to.

Some kids. Not all. Nobody quite knows what proportion, but the system is designed to minimise it.

Some kids will also be in a better position - the ones who would have flunked their exams.

This really is an extremely cruel way of showing children that life isn’t fair, and in my view it’s bang out of order when there’s no way to right it.

There is - retake the exam. They are offering this, or you can redo the course at college.

What it might cost them is a year of their life. Some might even find it's better to go to university a year later. I went very young for my year and was quite immature, and while it didn't affect the academic side it certainly did affect what I got out of the social side initially and was a much harder transition than I reckon it'd have been if I'd done a "year out".

A year out of a life that is fairly likely to last 80-100 years (remember, there will be lots more medical advances) isn't much, and it needn't be a total waste, you can do something useful with it, such as get some basic-level work experience.

It's one of those things that might feel really awful at the time, but adults overplaying it rather than assisting with solutions are going to be a big, big part of the problem.

It's an obstacle, but "empathising" by hand-wringing alongside them is really, really unhelpful - what parents and other adults need to do is start building solutions for those who have been adversely affected.

What about if those grades are being relied upon to secure a sixth form or university place? Unless things have changed radically since the early 2000s, you would need to get the grades specified in the Spring “exam season”, and then start the course in September or October. Re-sitting in the Autumn would necessitate an unscheduled year out.

Universities and colleges do not have their heads in a bucket of sand and are well aware that this has been going on, and will take it into account in admissions decisions or decisions of whether to offer with a conditional deferral or not.

The one that might theoretically be a bigger issue is University finals (as it's probably not practical to resit the whole course), but for one thing - University courses are all modular these days, so if you bin off the finals and just assess all those courses on coursework it's only really going to affect much if you were literally on a grade boundary.
 
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