Should we introduce a 3rd class?

[junglejames]

As said, silly idea, if only because they would quickly raise prices so that the new 3rd class was the price of todays standard, and standard would be the price of first class. Can you imagine paying £1000 for a standard class return from Newquay to Kyle?!!! lol

Ps. That was a joke. I know you wouldnt really. It was a dig at XC!
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To be honest, I think there are that many different comforts /standards /rides /qualities /speeds etc, we already have a multi-class rail system. You can hardly compare a bus seated Pacer's standard class with that on a Pendolino or a 125 for example.

I'd hardly call an overcrowded 185 on a Friday evening, hot, busy, stood up like sardines in a can - standard class. I've seen sheep transported better!!

I'll give you one thing, yes we do have a multi class railway, and you definitely cant compre standard on a pacer to standard on a pendy!!!

Who knows whats coming now?

Yep, you guessed it, the pacer is standard class, and the pendy is 3rd class

 

[Masboroughlad]

GNER did Standard Plus. Full fare standard open ticket holders got at seat comp drinks and biscuits. Available only on peak trains and I guess, if you were lucky enough to get a seat!

 

[WestCoast]

Yep, you guessed it, the pacer is standard class, and the pendy is 3rd class

I didn't see that coming at all:roll:. Packed pacers prove painfully poor.

 

[yorkie]

There are already three classes!

There is First Class, which is advertised as First Class, on the bona-fide "InterCity" routes.

There is Standard Class, again which is advertised as such on InterCity routes, but there is also this exact same type of class which, despite being comparable to standard, is labelled as First Class, on suburban services, an example would be the 2+2 IC70 seats that are identical on Class 317s and HSTs (in both cases assuming original seats).

Then there is what is arguably "third" class, this is always advertised as Standard Class and is 3+2 seating, and is available on many suburban services.

I doubt there would be much chance or benefit of offering all three classes on one train! I suppose it could be done, e.g. if a HST had a portion of 3+2 awful low seats like those you get on suburban trains, with no leg room at all, this could be called Third Class. But imagine the complications of changing the ticketing systems etc...! The probability of this happening is 0. Also 'Third Class' doesn't make sense if it goes First, Standard, Third. If third is standard, then you have to have some sort of Standard Plus/Silver Standard, which as others have said, has been done before...!

 

[Zamracene749]

Hmmm.

Regarding poor standards of travel.

Since there seem to be manuals full of the appropriate ways to ching passengers if they are travelling in a higher class/ faster/ peak time/ wrong livery/ non approved route service etc etc-

- would it not be nice if it were just as easy to issue a partial refund voucher (at least down to 2nd class), redeemable eg at a ticket office, for any poor sod with a pricey 1st class ticket forced to stand for all or part of their journey? Or even (god forbid) to partially recompense 2nd (sorry standard) ticket holders if they cannot get a seat for their lengthy XC or London service?

 

[island]

- would it not be nice if it were just as easy to issue a partial refund voucher (at least down to 2nd class), redeemable eg at a ticket office, for any poor sod with a pricey 1st class ticket forced to stand for all or part of their journey?

I believe there's a process for that already, involving guards giving out chits.

 

[All Line Rover]

As said, silly idea, if only because they would quickly raise prices so that the new 3rd class was the price of todays standard, and standard would be the price of first class. Can you imagine paying £1000 for a standard class return from Newquay to Kyle?!!! lol

Ps. That was a joke. I know you wouldnt really. It was a dig at XC!
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I'll give you one thing, yes we do have a multi class railway, and you definitely cant compre standard on a pacer to standard on a pendy!!!

Who knows whats coming now?

Yep, you guessed it, the pacer is standard class, and the pendy is 3rd class

The pacer is one of the most disgusting, horrible, vile, uncomfortable, loud trains in existence, and it vibrates a lot too! Can you imagine travelling on a pacer to London?

What have you got against Pendolinos/Voyagers! I've travelled from Glasgow to Crewe comfortably on a Super Voyager in Standard Class. I was sitting in a "Priority Seat", there was plenty of legroom, and it was a very smooth (and quiet!) journey. (It only cost £1.50 too!)

 

[HST Power]

The pacer is one of the most disgusting, horrible, uncomfortable, loud trains in existence, and it vibrates a lot too! Can you imagine travelling on a pacer to London?

I don't want to imagine that!

 

[T163R]

3rd class on commuter trains have positive and negative criterias.

But, why not a 4th class ? (sitting or lying down on the train's roof )

 

[HST Power]

3rd class on commuter trains have positive and negative criterias.

But, why not a 4th class ? (sitting or lying down on the train's roof )

That might just kill you if you're on the Great Northern route!

 

[T163R]

Well you have two choices:

25 kV just above your head
Diesel fumes in your face.

Don't talk, just choose. :grin:

 

[HST Power]

Oh, the agony of choice....

 

[pemma]

Well you have two choices:

25 kV just above your head
Diesel fumes in your face.

Don't talk, just choose. :grin:

If it's a route without overhead AC then your risk being knocked off when the train goes in to a tunnel or under a bridge.

 

[Mike395]

Well you have two choices:

25 kV just above your head
Diesel fumes in your face.

Don't talk, just choose. :grin:

Or neither in the case of third rail land :P

Going off on a slight tangent admittedly, I love the concept of open top double decker trains! If we ignored all the safety concerns, clearances, the fact itd never happen etc, they could be a really nice summer attraction on the more scenic routes :P

 

[pemma]

The pacer is one of the most disgusting, horrible, uncomfortable, loud trains in existence, and it vibrates a lot too! Can you imagine travelling on a pacer to London?

When a political conference is next on in Manchester, Liverpool, Blackpool etc. I'd like to see some Pendolinos switched with 10 car Pacer formations consisting of 6 x Merseytravel 142s for standard class and 4 x 2 car 144s for First Class. When the politicians complain point out to them that some 2-3 hour routes see Pacers on a regular basis.

 

[T163R]

More seriously:

Positive things about 3rd class:

-Not much difference with Standard Class in peak hours !
-No trouble getting a seat
-No need to walk on the passenger next to you to leave your seat
(and vice-versa)
-Keeps you fit

Negative things about 3rd class:

-We're not animals (even though in Standard it's a bit like this )
-Cramped conditions
-Smells, contacts, viruses...
-A bit tiring after a while (well ok you don't go in 3rd class if you travel for 4 hours between London and... say Scotland... but what if there are disruptions on the line ? Your 10 minute standing travel suddenly turns out to be an hour (or more) standing nightmare !)

I'll find other arguments, don't worry
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Going off on a slight tangent admittedly, I love the concept of open top double decker trains! If we ignored all the safety concerns, clearances, the fact itd never happen etc, they could be a really nice summer attraction on the more scenic routes :P

Well that could be possible ! Double decker DMU, with top seats to the front on the train, and exhaust pipes/fumes behind the double decker section

 

[HST Power]

I think this thread lost any sense of seriousness a long time ago!

 

[T163R]

I think this thread lost any sense of seriousness a long time ago!

For some people, the title of this thread maybe didn't seem very serious tho'

 

[HST Power]

For some people, the title of this thread maybe didn't seem very serious tho'

I suppose it didn't. But it's sure been reading all these ridiculous suggestions for 'Cattle Classes' and 'X Classes'!

 

[T163R]

I suppose it didn't. But it's sure been reading all these ridiculous suggestions for 'Cattle Classes' and 'X Classes'!

Well looking at today's railways...Cattle classes maybe exists

 

[HST Power]

All we need is some hay and troughs of water!

 

[Minilad]

I have sat in a luggage rack before and also on a table - I wonder what class that would be?

Sleeping in a luggage rack in old Mark 1 compo's on ECML overnights in the 70s.
Now thats what I call fun !!

 

[T163R]

All we need is some hay and troughs of water!

And no windows (too expensive )

 

[HST Power]

And no windows (too expensive )

And no lighting!

 

[T163R]

And no suspension

(Let's stop here, this could go on for hours )

 

[ACE1888]

Passengers suffer enough as it is! No way, just get more coaching stock built NOW

 

[Mystic Force]

When people mentioned sitting in the luggage rack, the first image that came to my head was people lying down along the overhead racks. Now that would really be 3rd class travel!

 

[Ivo]

I suppose it didn't. But it's sure been reading all these ridiculous suggestions for 'Cattle Classes' and 'X Classes'!

Oh thank you (!) I suggested both of those

 

[HST Power]

Oh thank you (!) I suggested both of those

I meant ridiculous as with a very humorous context! I forgot to put the word 'fun' into my post!

 

[trainophile]

Excellent!

Plenty of scope for penalty "fines" for you then my lad.

What? (and it's "lass" btw, give or take a few decades lol).

Where's the rule that says you can't perch on the side of your suitcase? Is that considered more dangerous than standing and swaying around hanging on to the handrails for dear life?