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Should We Leave the EU?

Do you believe the UK should stay in or leave the EU?

  • Stay in the EU

    Votes: 229 61.4%
  • Leave the EU

    Votes: 120 32.2%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 24 6.4%

  • Total voters
    373
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radamfi

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IDS and Boris seem to be on every BBC News bulletin, and you get extra Boris if you watch BBC London news. No shortage of Eurosceptic views on the BBC.
 
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NSEFAN

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I would expect Murdochs friends to be anti-EU, as he has no power over it. Shame the same can't be said for the UK government...
 

Geezertronic

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IDS and Boris seem to be on every BBC News bulletin, and you get extra Boris if you watch BBC London news. No shortage of Eurosceptic views on the BBC.

The only BBC News report I saw with a half impartial view was from a Director of the Chamber of Commerce. Not saw Boris once and even the news reports on Radio 2 eventually dropped the reporting of the anti-EU stance in favour of just reporting the pro-EU stance. There is a lot of BBC News reports from Calais though...
 

radamfi

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The only BBC News report I saw with a half impartial view was from a Director of the Chamber of Commerce. Not saw Boris once and even the news reports on Radio 2 eventually dropped the reporting of the anti-EU stance in favour of just reporting the pro-EU stance. There is a lot of BBC News reports from Calais though...

Just checked iPlayer for today's BBC News at One. Boris appears at 3:02 talking in very poor French.
 
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Tetchytyke

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I guess people pick up on reporting on their position far less than reporting on the other position.

I'm impartial about EU membership- I have plenty of issues with the organisation- and would say the BBC is pretty much spot on. I've seen plenty of both sides because I've been looking for both sides. Although anti-EU talking heads are more common (I'm assuming Farage Question Time got a bulk booking discount on the permatanned UKIP leader) the stories themselves tend to be presented impartially.

Sky News, on the other hand, can barely control themselves every time Iain Duncan Smith pops up. Sky make no effort to pretend that they present anything other than the opinion of their boss.
 

Oswyntail

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.....Getting a bit fed up with the bias as well as all the scaremongering reports if I am honest. How am I, an average Joe, supposed to make an informed decision on the basis of what a biased Prime Minister leading a biased BBC says... maybe I'll have to see if Sky News are any better when I get home :)
Most of the reports I have seen on the BBC have been anti - we must be part of different audiences. I suspect that, overall, the balance is, as usual, about right.
"Scaremongering" again. This is obviously the buzzword of the referendum. Simply saying there may be undesirable consequences to a decision is not "scaremongering", it is simply part of what is known as a "debate". (Unless, of course, the consequences are ridiculous, such as "everyone's nose would drop off", which some might take seriously)
As for a "biased Prime Minister"!!! Do you understand anything? It is the Government policy to support staying in (though, of course, some members of the Government have been given permission to campaign against); the Prime Minister is the leader of the Government, so it is his job to put the case for staying in.
 
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As much as I dislike the EU bandwagon I consider indoor smoking bans, assuming the EU was actually responsible for them, to be the best days work they ever did

In my opinion though smokers don't usually sit in the beer garden, they congregate round every door forcing the majority to walk through their smoke and smell

Presumably if you can't see it and can't smell it, then it must be ok?

Which is why vehicle exhaust pollution in urban areas is doing far more damage than passive smoking ever will; and why many cities exceed the maximum permitted levels of certain poisonous gases every time we have a slow moving high pressure weather system.
 

Butts

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Pubs were given that choice.

Before the outright ban there was a voluntary code of practice in place. Pubs were allowed to designate which rooms were smoking or non smoking.

Some may remember the stickers that appeared in pub windows at the time stating that particular pub's policy.

I never saw a sticker that didn't say, "Smoking policy: Smoking allowed throughout".

Pubs had their chance. They blew it.


They may have been allowed to restrict smoking in certain areas before the ban came in, but afterwards that option was removed.

Prior to the ban I can remember a few Wetherspoons Pubs become "smoke free" but quickly retracted the policy when business nosedived.

What to smokers is becoming increasingly annoying is that notwithstanding the fact they have been forced outside, now that space is subject to creeping encroachment of further restrictions.
 

St Rollox

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Wait till Project Fear really starts.
I've got my popcorn at the ready.
Really going to enjoy this.
 

yorksrob

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I would expect Murdochs friends to be anti-EU, as he has no power over it. Shame the same can't be said for the UK government...

The Times is very pro-EU at the moment, although that doesn't surprise me as it does very much represent the free market Establishment.
 

Monty

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Prior to the ban I can remember a few Wetherspoons Pubs become "smoke free" but quickly retracted the policy when business nosedived.

Not strictly true mate, before working on the railways I worked for Weatherspoons and my pub was in of the smoke free pubs before the law changed and while it was said business was affected by the smoke free policy there was no change until the smoking ban came into force.
 

radamfi

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The only BBC News report I saw with a half impartial view was from a Director of the Chamber of Commerce. Not saw Boris once and even the news reports on Radio 2 eventually dropped the reporting of the anti-EU stance in favour of just reporting the pro-EU stance. There is a lot of BBC News reports from Calais though...

IDS lead news item today on BBC News this morning.
 

Geezertronic

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Most of the reports I have seen on the BBC have been anti - we must be part of different audiences. I suspect that, overall, the balance is, as usual, about right.
"Scaremongering" again. This is obviously the buzzword of the referendum. Simply saying there may be undesirable consequences to a decision is not "scaremongering", it is simply part of what is known as a "debate". (Unless, of course, the consequences are ridiculous, such as "everyone's nose would drop off", which some might take seriously)
As for a "biased Prime Minister"!!! Do you understand anything? It is the Government policy to support staying in (though, of course, some members of the Government have been given permission to campaign against); the Prime Minister is the leader of the Government, so it is his job to put the case for staying in.

We must be. I can only say what I have seen from BBC News 24 and heard from Moira on Radio 2 - admittedly with BBC News 24 I have not had the opportunity to watch a full hour long broadcast but the leading stories from what I saw were all pro-EU.

The French are scaremongering as it seems they need us in the EU more than we need them. To say there will be the possibility of dropping border checks leading to an influx of migrants onto British soil if the UK leaves the EU is blatant scaremongering. From what I understand about that treaty, it was arranged independently of the EU and requires a 6 month notice period from either side to terminate anyway

I understand what you say about Government policy, I guess my view was said with a distrust of politicians in mind
 

Tetchytyke

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The French are scaremongering as it seems they need us in the EU more than we need them. To say there will be the possibility of dropping border checks leading to an influx of migrants onto British soil if the UK leaves the EU is blatant scaremongering.

"Scaremongering" is creating ludicrous positions that have no justification in reality to scare people.

France have pointed out that they agreed to juxtaposed border controls in the spirit of European unity. If there's no European unity they may change their mind about juxtaposed border controls. If they change their mind about that, all the migrants in Calais will be able to board boats for Dover. Calais' mayor has already said she wants rid of the juxtaposed borders, and there is much anger in Northern France about Britain's position.

I wouldn't say France's position is "scaremongering". They're simply stating their position. You might consider it a threat, it's up to you to decide whether a) you think they'd follow through and b) whether that bothers you.
 

furnessvale

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"Scaremongering" is creating ludicrous positions that have no justification in reality to scare people.

France have pointed out that they agreed to juxtaposed border controls in the spirit of European unity. If there's no European unity they may change their mind about juxtaposed border controls. If they change their mind about that, all the migrants in Calais will be able to board boats for Dover. Calais' mayor has already said she wants rid of the juxtaposed borders, and there is much anger in Northern France about Britain's position.

I wouldn't say France's position is "scaremongering". They're simply stating their position. You might consider it a threat, it's up to you to decide whether a) you think they'd follow through and b) whether that bothers you.

What this discussion misses is the concept of carrier liability. Unless each migrant has the correct paperwork to enter the UK, no carrier will accept them on board and risk a hefty fine.

If it was as easy as France thinks, why don't all the Syrians crossing the Turkish border simply go to the airport and jump on the first plane to the UK. There are no UK border controls at Turkish airports but carrier liability means they are not allowed on the planes.

Exactly the same will apply at Calais if France tears up the treaty.

Incidentally, the willingness of France to tear up a TREATY does not bode well for the scrap of paper Cameron brought back from Paris, which will require unanimity from all EU members to be enacted.
 

miami

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8AM Radio 2 news

1) Ian Duncan Smith attacks the fact the tory party are going to be in disarray after the election regardless
2) Something about cancer research
3) Trump
4) Tech companies vs fbi

There were a couple of others, but I tuned out. Nothing else EU related apart from the IDS piece.

Clearly pro-leave.
 

Tetchytyke

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the scrap of paper Cameron brought back from Paris

I think everyone, regardless of whether they're in or out, are agreed that Cameron's "emergency brake" agreement isn't worth the paper that it is written on. He's used up a decade of European goodwill on something that has all the standing of a used tissue. A true statesman. William Pitt the Younger he ain't.

France couldn't just wave people on to the boats, but they could make it a lot easier for people to get on the boats. As I say, of course it is a threat; you just need to decide whether you think they'd follow through and whether you care if they do.
 
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furnessvale

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I think everyone, regardless of whether they're in or out, are agreed that Cameron's "emergency brake" agreement isn't worth the paper that it is written on. He's used up a decade of European goodwill on something that has all the standing of a used tissue. A true statesman. William Pitt the Younger he ain't.

France couldn't just wave people on to the boats, but they could make it a lot easier for people to get on the boats. As I say, of course it is a threat; you just need to decide whether you think they'd follow through and whether you care if they do.

How do they do that, and would the boats sail to the UK to face a hefty fine per passenger?
 

ExRes

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8AM Radio 2 news

1) Ian Duncan Smith attacks the fact the tory party are going to be in disarray after the election regardless
2) Something about cancer research
3) Trump
4) Tech companies vs fbi

There were a couple of others, but I tuned out. Nothing else EU related apart from the IDS piece.

Clearly pro-leave.

I think you might be stretching a point rather, what if IDS had said nothing and Cameron had made a pro-stay speech, would that mean the BBC was 'clearly pro-stay'?
 

Tetchytyke

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In which case Eurotunnel can quite legitimately patrol its own property.

Indeed they can, and do. But they can't do it with armed guards, for which they need the French police.

Much of the security at Calais, including the juxtaposed border, is reliant on French co-operation. Most of the important security equipment is only there because the French allow it to be there. Politicians in Northern France have been arguing for the abolition of the juxtaposed border for at least two years. Who knows if the French would be as co-operative if we turned our back on the EU?
 
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furnessvale

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Indeed they can, and do. But they can't do it with armed guards, for which they need the French police.

Much of the security at Calais, including the juxtaposed border, is reliant on French co-operation. Most of the important security equipment is only there because the French allow it to be there. Politicians in Northern France have been arguing for the abolition of the juxtaposed border for at least two years. Who knows if the French would be as co-operative if we turned our back on the EU?

Eurotunnel, Eurostar and SNCF would all lose if the tunnel was effectively closed which is what the UK government would do if it proved a problem. These are French interests.

Calais port would grind to a halt if the ferry companies were forced to check passengers and ensure their security unassisted before sailing to the UK. I think Calais will be screaming at central government about what it is costing them quite quickly.

Railfreight and foot passengers would suffer but HGVs would use Spanish, Belgian and Dutch ports as they do now.

No one is saying it would be easy and yes it will cost the UK but what is the cost of the continuous slide towards a United States of Europe?
 

Senex

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France have pointed out that they agreed to juxtaposed border controls in the spirit of European unity. If there's no European unity they may change their mind about juxtaposed border controls.

And the BBC was reporting a couple of days ago that all that is needed to end the Le Touquet treaty is six months' notice on either side. So what would there be to stop the French giving that notice the day after a British "No" vote?

As the Brexit people say, the EU would certainly want trade deals with an exited Britain, but they would assuredly negotiate very hard to get the best deal for themselves, shewing no favours to the British. Why should they adopt a generous approach if we have just told them we don't want to belong to their club any more? And if France negotiated the Calais agreement in a spirit of EU co-operation, why should France not take a very hard line if we are no longer in the EU?

I certainly can't see the aftermath of "No" as being all sweetness and light.
 

miami

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I think you might be stretching a point rather, what if IDS had said nothing and Cameron had made a pro-stay speech, would that mean the BBC was 'clearly pro-stay'?

Of course.

Or there's the alternative, which is the BBC reports the news, and gives equal weights to both sides of the argument, which is what really happens.
 

Senex

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... the continuous slide towards a United States of Europe?
Which is exactly what some of us would like to see. The EU may well have many faults and may already have been a great disappointment to some of us, but the alternative of a little England (assuming Scotland would head off pretty quick and get back into the EU) always going on about its (so-called) democracy, its superiority in all respects over other European coutries, the way its people love being subjects of the crown, etc truly appals.
 

miami

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No one is saying it would be easy and yes it will cost the UK but what is the cost of the continuous slide towards a United States of Europe?

Slide or Progress?

I think I'm with Winston Churchill on that view. Better Europe than America.
 

Senex

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Or there's the alternative, which is the BBC reports the news, and gives equal weights to both sides of the argument, which is what really happens.
Does it? Given the way Radio 4's ten-p.m. news reported on the migrant question yesterday evening with two substantial interviews both strongly favourable towards migrants, I wonder how unbiased the BBC is. I agree the organisation is unbiased between Labour and Conservative, but it does generally seem to have a left-liberal inclination in its selection of what to report and the language used by many of its staff.
 
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