Should you be able to get an over distance excess after you've gone beyond the validity of your original ticket?

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Mod Note: Posts #1 - #11 originally in this thread.

Why were they unable to pay the excess? I'm sure many people's circumstances change en route. Did the "ticket inspector" who came along at Cricklewood not offer to sell them an excess? Should they have got off at St Albans to purchase another ticket then?
 
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ainsworth74

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Why were they unable to pay the excess? I'm sure many people's circumstances change en route. Did the "ticket inspector" who came along at Cricklewood not offer to sell them an excess? Should they have got off at St Albans to purchase another ticket then?

You cannot purchase an over distance excess once you've gone beyond the validity of your originally held ticket. So if you cannot find a member of staff on board who can issue the excess before you reach the end of the tickets validity then you should leave the train at the point at which that validity comes to an end as otherwise you are travelling without a valid ticket.
 

WesternLancer

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Why were they unable to pay the excess? I'm sure many people's circumstances change en route. Did the "ticket inspector" who came along at Cricklewood not offer to sell them an excess? Should they have got off at St Albans to purchase another ticket then?
assume it was Thameslink - so Driver Only Operation and no staff to go and find before the St Albans stop. Assume staff who asked for ticket was revenue protection. Just implementing the rules without flexibility. Only way for OP to have avoided it would thus have been to get off at St Albans and buy a new ticket or bought an e-ticket before train stopped at St Albans I suspect, as mentioned up thread.
 

AlterEgo

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Why were they unable to pay the excess? I'm sure many people's circumstances change en route. Did the "ticket inspector" who came along at Cricklewood not offer to sell them an excess? Should they have got off at St Albans to purchase another ticket then?
You cannot travel without a ticket. Else, everyone who was short faring or doughnutting would just be charged an excess or for a new ticket, the classic "pay when challenged" conundrum.
 
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I thought that was the point of excess ticket windows (or whatever) at large stations where folks can do this.
 

WesternLancer

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I thought that was the point of excess ticket windows (or whatever) at large stations where folks can do this.
I guess those windows will become a thing of the past when the railway becomes penalty fare zone over 100% of the routes - which I suspect is the general desire of the DfT and parts of the industry, with the unfortunate side affect of treating everyone as a fare evader when not everyone is - and the general outcome being that for those who are not fare dodgers it's such an unpleasant experience customer service wise that you retreat to the comfort of your car and revenue overall goes down...
 
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Exactly!
Taking the OP at face value, they board a train with a valid ticket to St A. Things change en route. How does the OP (or any less frequent user) know there isn't a guard on the train from who you can buy a ticket for the extra distance they want to go. How do less frequent travellers know they must get off and buy another ticket. How do they know when the next train/how frequent the service is.
What would've happened if this was the last train of the day?

Sometimes honest travellers seem to be stuck in being branded a criminal, just by not knowing EXACTLY what the rules are. And when common sense would suggest to them that purchasing from a member of staff on board, or at the destination, would be OK.
 

AlterEgo

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Exactly!
Taking the OP at face value, they board a train with a valid ticket to St A. Things change en route. How does the OP (or any less frequent user) know there isn't a guard on the train from who you can buy a ticket for the extra distance they want to go. How do less frequent travellers know they must get off and buy another ticket. How do they know when the next train/how frequent the service is.
What would've happened if this was the last train of the day?

Sometimes honest travellers seem to be stuck in being branded a criminal, just by not knowing EXACTLY what the rules are. And when common sense would suggest to them that purchasing from a member of staff on board, or at the destination, would be OK.
I reckon if you did a straw poll and asked people in the street most would say being on the train without a valid ticket in this circumstance is likely to lead to trouble. But none of this conjecture is helpful to the OP.
 

londonteacher

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Exactly!
Taking the OP at face value, they board a train with a valid ticket to St A. Things change en route. How does the OP (or any less frequent user) know there isn't a guard on the train from who you can buy a ticket for the extra distance they want to go. How do less frequent travellers know they must get off and buy another ticket. How do they know when the next train/how frequent the service is.
What would've happened if this was the last train of the day?

Sometimes honest travellers seem to be stuck in being branded a criminal, just by not knowing EXACTLY what the rules are. And when common sense would suggest to them that purchasing from a member of staff on board, or at the destination, would be OK.
However, playing devil's advocate, on Thameslink you can buy e-tickets for services from St Albans City to St Pancras International so a ticket could have been purchased on the train. But of course they would have to know that they can do this or be able to pay using card.
 

WesternLancer

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I reckon if you did a straw poll and asked people in the street most would say being on the train without a valid ticket in this circumstance is likely to lead to trouble. But none of this conjecture is helpful to the OP.
Yes, but I think if you asked such people
"do you think there should be a member of staff on the train to buy a ticket from if you need to do so" they would say yes
and if you asked
"do you think fares should be higher to pay for more staff to be on trains to sell you a ticket" they would say no

so hard to win really....

so it then comes down to revenue staff being able to use their discretion with individual circumstances, but all sorts of organisations do not like staff being able to use 'discretion' it seems, even though that may produce better customer services / satisfaction outcomes
 

Snow1964

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I guess those windows will become a thing of the past when the railway becomes penalty fare zone over 100% of the routes - which I suspect is the general desire of the DfT and parts of the industry, with the unfortunate side affect of treating everyone as a fare evader when not everyone is - and the general outcome being that for those who are not fare dodgers it's such an unpleasant experience customer service wise that you retreat to the comfort of your car and revenue overall goes down...

There are still hundreds of minor stations where you cannot buy a ticket, (or where a machine exists, but does not sell full range of tickets) which is why there are excess fare windows.

Where it gets a bit customer unfriendly is where the timetable offers a cross platform change, but the excess fare window has been moved to just inside a gateline. And then you get some stroppy guard who says you shouldn’t have changed trains without the detour to window even if it means waiting an extra hour to next train.

But I agree, if treat passengers badly or like a criminal, not likely to be keen to travel by train again.

Regarding the Op, if he had got off train to buy another ticket, would it have been practical to do so, without long delay. That is problem with no guards and no customer friendly attitude.
 

6Gman

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I thought that was the point of excess ticket windows (or whatever) at large stations where folks can do this.
I always assumed these facilities (and perhaps "excess ticket windows" isn't the best terminology) were for people who had not had a previous opportunity to pay e.g. by boarding at a station with no facilities.
 

nanstallon

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I guess those windows will become a thing of the past when the railway becomes penalty fare zone over 100% of the routes - which I suspect is the general desire of the DfT and parts of the industry, with the unfortunate side affect of treating everyone as a fare evader when not everyone is - and the general outcome being that for those who are not fare dodgers it's such an unpleasant experience customer service wise that you retreat to the comfort of your car and revenue overall goes down...
There is some truth in this. Nobody likes being treated as being a criminal until proved otherwise.
 

WesternLancer

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There is some truth in this. Nobody likes being treated as being a criminal until proved otherwise.
Yes, compare it with this recent thread

where the poster gets hit, but way less than the OP in this thread will probably have to pay - so it can vary under differing circs.
 

gimmea50anyday

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"do you think fares should be higher to pay for more staff to be on trains to sell you a ticket" they would say no

so hard to win really....

however, fares will NOT go down when train managers/conductors/commercial guards are removed from trains as has already been demonstrated....
 

Envy123

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Such a thing is possible if you’re travelling solely within GTR land where KeyGo is available, you registered for KeyGo and your original ticket is on your Key Smartcard.

Just touch out at your destination and you will be charged the excess through KeyGo.

No need to exit the train and buy a new ticket. Just continue on the same train and you’ll be charged the correct excess automatically, with no hassle.
 
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