signals on platforms

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ess

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at hayes and harlington platform 3 SN287 blinds passengers when walking down the platform towards the exit. does that happen anywhere else?
 
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ralphchadkirk

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I'm afraid Network Rail will likely consider the signal to be more important than the momentary blinding of passengers.
 

John Webb

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Looking at the GeoGraph website and Google I assume that this signal is at or under the road overbridge which probably means the signal is a bit lower than usual?
 

Crossover

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I guess these are LED signals (sorry, not looked at any photos) - in which case I know with traffic lights, they can be quite dazzling at times, since they are seemingly of a much higher intensity to conventional filament bulbs.

As the others have said though, the signal sighting and such is probably of more concern to the railway than a passenger getting an eyeful of red/yellow/green as they walk down the platform. Is there really no way to avoid looking directly at it whilst walking down the platform, maybe by diverting ones gaze just to the side of it (I know at LED traffic lights by night I can't look at them for too long, and at that, you are not head onto them either, in fact, actually at quite an angle from them)
 
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PaxVobiscum

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at hayes and harlington platform 3 SN287 blinds passengers when walking down the platform towards the exit. does that happen anywhere else?
I thought for a moment you were going to say "at Hayes and Harlington hurricanes hardly ever happen."

Just ignore me.
 

Matt Taylor

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I've used that platform and have never been blinded by the signal, if it were too bright it could be a safety hazard to drivers as they approach it too although I'm not aware of it being a hazard as such.
 

deltic1989

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I thought for a moment you were going to say "at Hayes and Harlington hurricanes hardly ever happen."

Just ignore me.

Your coat sir? :D

There is a signal in a similar situation at the end of platform 6 at Nottingham, although from looking at that picture the one I'm on about may be further under its bridge, whilst it is rather bright I wouldnt say it was blindingly so. And in any event there are plenty of other ways to look other than directly at the signal.
 

merlodlliw

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On another matter, we have traffic lights on what is known as the Ruthin Turn off in Wrexham A525, some of these have had a kind of blinkers attached facing down due to the intensity of the light.
These are led & my guess is the power etc, could be changed for the situation if required.
I appreciate safety is paramount,I wonder in some instances if the correct light/wattage as been installed by the contractors for intensity in specific areas.

just my opinion/
 

boing_uk

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On another matter, we have traffic lights on what is known as the Ruthin Turn off in Wrexham A525, some of these have had a kind of blinkers attached facing down due to the intensity of the light.
These are led & my guess is the power etc, could be changed for the situation if required.
I appreciate safety is paramount,I wonder in some instances if the correct light/wattage as been installed by the contractors for intensity in specific areas.

just my opinion/
They are not because of the light output. Louvres are fitted because it has been desirable to restrict the visibility of the signal to either a certain direction or distance from the signal.
 

merlodlliw

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Always safety first, but down here in Cornwall we still have plenty of semaphore's on our platforms, adds to the atmosphere down here ;)
Real signals
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
They are not because of the light output. Louvres are fitted because it has been desirable to restrict the visibility of the signal to either a certain direction or distance from the signal.
OK, thanks for the opinion.

Bob
 
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asylumxl

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I appreciate safety is paramount,I wonder in some instances if the correct light/wattage as been installed by the contractors for intensity in specific areas.
What people don't often consider is that signals will change their apparent intensity depending on the intensity of the ambient light. What may be dazzling at night will probably be quite comfortable during the day.

Furthermore, it's worth remembering that some signals/traffic lights may at some point during the day have strong sunlight shining upon them, making them harder to see and as such requiring them to be more intense. If I remember rightly, this caused a major accident on the GWML.

Just my two pence..
 

Railsigns

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And they are the right* quadrant.

*GWR used lower quadrant signals.
All the British railway companies used lower quadrant signals to begin with.

Only the GWR was stubborn/stupid enough to stick with them after all the others had recognised the benefits of changing to upper quadrant signals.

This "GWR was right and everyone else was wrong" nonsense becomes quite tiresome when you've heard it repeated often enough.
 

Zoe

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All the British railway companies used lower quadrant signals to begin with.
I was not saying they never did just that the GWR continued to use them. Sorry this was not clear.

This "GWR was right and everyone else was wrong" nonsense becomes quite tiresome when you've heard it repeated often enough.
It's not nonsense to everyone.
 
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Railsigns

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What controls did the GWR have to prevent a lower quadrant signal showing a false clear if the wire snapped?
A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
 
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ralphchadkirk

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A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
Thanks Railsigns. So basically if the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeded that of the counterweight and the wire snapped there could be a wrong side failure? It doesn't sound likely, but did the GWR realise the risk and decided it was too small or did they go ahead regardless?
 

Railsigns

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So basically if the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeded that of the counterweight and the wire snapped there could be a wrong side failure?
Exactly. If you can get hold of the IRSE Proceedings for the 1920s period, you can read all the arguments that were made for (and against!) adopting UQ signals in this country.


It doesn't sound likely, but did the GWR realise the risk and decided it was too small or did they go ahead regardless?
Without checking, I can't recall a specific reason why the GWR stuck with LQ, but it may be recorded in those discussions or in one of the more recent signalling books.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
So basically if the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeded that of the counterweight and the wire snapped there could be a wrong side failure?
Thinking about it, that is probably unlikely. The danger is when the LQ arm becomes disconnected from the rod connecting it to the counterweight and the weight of snow and ice on the arm exceeds the weight of the heavy spectacle plate on the opposite side of the spindle.
 

transmanche

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A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
As proved by Henry the Green Engine in 'The Flying Kipper'.

I'll get my wagon...
 
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This one?



Can't see it as being much of a problem as you don't have to gaze into it or anything to move around the platform.
That picture nicely demonstrates how much clearer LED signals are compared their filament bulb counterparts. Compare SN287 to SN289 on the opposite platform!

Referring to the OP, I think they might be referring to the junction indicator illuminating when a Heathrow Connect train is coming into the platform, with its bright white lights. The signal head is on the platform so I can understand that the intensity of the light from a signal head designed to be seen from a distance could be a bit full on to those who are sensitive to light standing on the platform. However the public are free to move away from the signal if it's an issue for them!

As a driver I have no issues with blinding from this signal. In fact despite all the clutter of the station SN287 can be seen very well on the approach to Hayes and the critical junction beyond. It ain't broke, don't try to fix it! :)
 

Railsigns

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That picture nicely demonstrates how much clearer LED signals are compared their filament bulb counterparts. Compare SN287 to SN289 on the opposite platform!
I'd suggest that all it demonstrates is how much clearer a signal appears when you're looking straight into the light beam.
 
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I'd suggest that all it demonstrates is how much clearer a signal appears when you're looking straight into the light beam.
Not necessarily. Coming the other way into Hayes (on the up) you're not directly looking directly into the beam of any particular signal out of SN300 / SN298 / SN290. Two of those signals are LED and one is still bulbs. Guess which one is more difficult to spot....
 

DaveNewcastle

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A solid rod between the arm and counterweight, which rises to push the arm "off". The danger with lower quadrant signals comes when you get a broken wire and a signal arm weighted down with snow and ice.
I'm reminded of the Abbots Ripton disaster of 1876 involving 3 trains in very heavy snow fall.
As I understood it, there were several contributory factors, but one was the weight of the snow a the signal arm (lower quadrant) which failed to return fully to danger and to position the red lens in front of the lamp.
There were as many recommendations as causes, but one outcome was that the Company (the Great Northern Railway) introduced signals whose pivoting point was closer to the signal's centre of gravity, and therefore the accumulation of ice and snow would not be likely to tip the balance in one direction any more than the other.

All way off topic, sorry!
 

Harbon 1

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As proved by Henry the Green Engine in 'The Flying Kipper'.

I'll get my wagon...
I was thinking exactly the same :lol:

Railsigns said:
I'd suggest that all it demonstrates is how much clearer a signal appears when you're looking straight into the light beam.
If you visit any station with LEDs, you can clearly see the aspects of signals across the tracks eg. at Lincoln, as demonstrated by this picture... (not great quality as it was my old camera that this was taken with)


Plus they are easily told apart from the massive difference in lens size.
 

GB

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LED signals are funny things. They are good in day light but come night time they are too bright to the degree of dazzling. Also in fog they seem to have little penetration compared to filament bulbs.
 
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