Silverstone rail link - spur off of HS2?

[WolvertonWorks]

Silverstone boss wants better transport to circuit​

British Grand Prix: Silverstone boss wants better transport links

Stuart Pringle attends a Downing Street reception to celebrate 75 years of Formula 1.

www.bbc.co.uk

"So the sort of things I want to talk about are connectivity, about how we can have better public transport to this part of the country. Rail would be good if we could bring people closer to Silverstone by rail."

It's F1 today and I'm sitting here in Milton Keynes and the stream of helicopters taking spectators to Silverstone has been going on for some time.

Currently the nearest railway stations are probably Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton or Northampton and Stagecoach appear to have run a bus the X91 earlier today https://www.stagecoachbus.com/routes/midlands/X91/milton-keynes-silverstone/XLAX091.I which goes via Towcester but takes over an hour.

There also appears to be a Stagecoach route 88 from Northampton to Silverstone village which takes 48 minutes.

So how might Silverstone be connected by rail?

The lines through Towcester are long gone - might a spur to Silverstone off of HS2 to run special services on race days be possible?

 

[Zomboid]

Possible? If you want to spend billions on it. Silverstone is only really busy one weekend a year, it's never going to be a good use of money to connect it to the train network.

 

[JonathanH]

Silverstone's problem essentially is that it effectively has a single point of access, off the A43. While the A43 has been upgraded over time, I doubt that Silverstone's owners could practically fund a spur off HS2 for one weekend a year. Besides HS2 isn't going to be operational for at least another 12 years. The rest of the rail network is really too far away (such that one off coaches need to bring in the passengers).

Oxford to Northampton used to support a coach service. Such things are long gone now.

There are coaches to Silverstone from all across the country on the F1 weekend. This is what Bustimes shows.

S1
London - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S2
Wolverhampton - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S3
Cardiff - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S4
Portsmouth - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S5
Liverpool - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S6
Leeds - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S7
Nottingham - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S8
Coventry - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
S9
Bournemouth - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express
SCA
London - Silverstone Race Circuit
National Express

 

[philosopher]

Possible? If you want to spend billions on it. Silverstone is only really busy one weekend a year, it's never going to be a good use of money to connect it to the train network.

Well the motorsport industry does have quite a bit of money. It would very ironic if the motorsport industry were to spend billions on building a very fast rail line though.

 

[swt_passenger]

Possible? If you want to spend billions on it. Silverstone is only really busy one weekend a year, it's never going to be a good use of money to connect it to the train network.

Probably be cheaper to build a new circuit next to an existing major railway route.

 

[stevieinselby]

Even where the infrastructure exists, it's very rare that it's viable to run rail services for infrequent events – just about the only ones I can think of are Glastonbury and the rugby in Cardiff. Even Manchester United FC, which has its own dedicated station, no longer runs trains to it on match days. The kind of people who will charter a helicopter are not the kind of people who would lower themselves to travelling with the sweaty masses on a train.

The cost of building a new rail line – the financial cost, the opportunity cost (every pound and every hour that is spent on this project is money/manpower that isn't available for another project), the environmental cost – is far too high to be justified for the one weekend a year when it would see any meaningful use. Far more sensible to just close the A43 to through traffic for one weekend a year, and commandeer a hundred coaches to ferry people in from Milton Keynes station and some more from Oxford/Bicester/Banbury.

If there was a railway line running past Silverstone anyway and there was already a station in the village then yes, it would be worth running special services for visitors to the F1GP (and potentially other major events, although I'm not aware of any that would be big enough to justify that) ... but building new dedicated infrastructure just for that? Not a chance.

 

[JamesT]

Even where the infrastructure exists, it's very rare that it's viable to run rail services for infrequent events – just about the only ones I can think of are Glastonbury and the rugby in Cardiff. Even Manchester United FC, which has its own dedicated station, no longer runs trains to it on match days. The kind of people who will charter a helicopter are not the kind of people who would lower themselves to travelling with the sweaty masses on a train.

The cost of building a new rail line – the financial cost, the opportunity cost (every pound and every hour that is spent on this project is money/manpower that isn't available for another project), the environmental cost – is far too high to be justified for the one weekend a year when it would see any meaningful use. Far more sensible to just close the A43 to through traffic for one weekend a year, and commandeer a hundred coaches to ferry people in from Milton Keynes station and some more from Oxford/Bicester/Banbury.

If there was a railway line running past Silverstone anyway and there was already a station in the village then yes, it would be worth running special services for visitors to the F1GP (and potentially other major events, although I'm not aware of any that would be big enough to justify that) ... but building new dedicated infrastructure just for that? Not a chance.

Possibly throwing good money after bad, but the question sort of becomes, is there a demand for which a railway running past Silverstone would be the answer? East-West Rail is likely to provide for many of the journeys between the Chiltern Line and the WCML, is another line in the relatively near vicinity going to have much of a business case?

 

[NSE]

I think it would get a bit more than one weekend a year. The MotoGp would be big enough to prompt usage. Plus, build it and they will come, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Silverstone start pushing for a few live bands or maybe a small festival of something if a rail link was built.

But is two weekends and the possibility of maybe having a couple of live shows enough to justify the cost? Not a chance.

Personally, the best thing to do is build a bus/coach terminus at the station and increase the number of buses running to stations.

 

[stevieinselby]

Possibly throwing good money after bad, but the question sort of becomes, is there a demand for which a railway running past Silverstone would be the answer? East-West Rail is likely to provide for many of the journeys between the Chiltern Line and the WCML, is another line in the relatively near vicinity going to have much of a business case?

No, not a chance.
You could try to make a case for a line running from Northampton to Oxford by way of Towcester, Brackley and Bicester ... but Northampton to Bicester and Oxford can be done relatively easily by changing to EWR at Milton Keynes, so it would rely on local traffic from Towcester, Brackley and possibly Silverstone, and even though the towns have grown recently, I can't see any viable plan for it that would provide enough of a USP that it wouldn't just be duplicating a parallel service a few miles away.

 

[The Planner]

. Far more sensible to just close the A43 to through traffic for one weekend a year, and commandeer a hundred coaches to ferry people in from Milton Keynes station and some more from Oxford/Bicester/Banbury.

Isn't that done anyway? Pretty sure the A43 has a one way system set up.

 

[6Gman]

If there was a railway line running past Silverstone anyway and there was already a station in the village then yes, it would be worth running special services for visitors to the F1GP (and potentially other major events, although I'm not aware of any that would be big enough to justify that) ... but building new dedicated infrastructure just for that? Not a chance.

But couldn't this be another Lewes bonfire/ Coventry stadium issue where the facility would be so overwhelmed by the traffic levels that it would end up shutting for safety reasons?

 

[NSE]

If it was a HS2 station then I guess all HS2 services could be reservation only, so you’d be able to cope as you’d know how many to expect and when. Though one would also say by being reservation only and not having ‘crowd buster cram ‘em all on’ post race’, the station wouldn’t exactly be that useful to many.

 

[Zomboid]

If there were to be an intermediate station on HS2, then Brackley/ the A43 wouldn't be a bad place to put it. But that's still miles from Silverstone so it'd need buses to link to the actual circuit whenever events that draw a crowd are on.

A branch from HS2 is real fantasy stuff.

 

[stevieinselby]

Isn't that done anyway? Pretty sure the A43 has a one way system set up.

Oh yes, I wasn't trying to suggest they need to do anything different, the current setup seems to work about as well as you could hope for.

But couldn't this be another Lewes bonfire/ Coventry stadium issue where the facility would be so overwhelmed by the traffic levels that it would end up shutting for safety reasons?

That's a risk, although the trains seem to work well enough for Glastonbury – I think with this being a more remote rural location that wouldn't be picking up much local traffic, it's less of a risk than it would be for a town centre station like Lewes. But with somewhere in the region of 150,000 spectators for the Grand Prix, you would need to have a very good plan for how to keep the numbers manageable.

 

[JonathanH]

Even where the infrastructure exists, it's very rare that it's viable to run rail services for infrequent events – just about the only ones I can think of are Glastonbury and the rugby in Cardiff.

There are numerous places where the service gets stepped up for events, however some are less notable than others for what actually happens.

For instance, London Overground ran extra Sunday morning trains for the Hackney Half Marathon on 18 May, but it isn't as visible as Glastonbury because it is just the usual 378s running earlier in the day.

That's a risk, although the trains seem to work well enough for Glastonbury – I think with this being a more remote rural location that wouldn't be picking up much local traffic, it's less of a risk than it would be for a town centre station like Lewes.

It isnt Lewes station that is expected to be overrun, but the town centre itself. Given Silverstone is a ticketed event, the demand could be fairly well anticipated, just as provisions are now made on the A43 for the anticipated road traffic in light of issues some years ago.

 

[Kite159]

Silverstone's problem essentially is that it effectively has a single point of access, off the A43. While the A43 has been upgraded over time, I doubt that Silverstone's owners could practically fund a spur off HS2 for one weekend a year. Besides HS2 isn't going to be operational for at least another 12 years. The rest of the rail network is really too far away (such that one off coaches need to bring in the passengers).

Oxford to Northampton used to support a coach service. Such things are long gone now.

There are coaches to Silverstone from all across the country on the F1 weekend. This is what Bustimes shows.

Plus a frequent bus shuttle from Banbury station to the race circuit

 

[Elecman]

Reopen Blisworth station right next to the A43

 

[BlueLeanie]

There's nothing wrong with this aspiration.

The head of Buckinghamshire Council should be onto this immediately and be asking central Government to fund a link from EW to a new station at Buckingham, with Silverstone funding the five mile link from Buckingham station to Silverstone with a triangle junction so it's accessible from London via Aylesbury & Oxford and from the North via the WCML and Bedford

As a community, we shouldn't be telling $Billion organisations who are prepared to spend £lots not to spend money on railway infrastructure!

So let's see a new private station with four 12-car bays and one through platform/line under a multi-storey car park.

(Through line to allow for a future link to Silverstone village and Towcester if it can be funded one day.)

 

[The Planner]

There's nothing wrong with this aspiration.

The head of Buckinghamshire Council should be onto this immediately and be asking central Government to fund a link from EW to a new station at Buckingham, with Silverstone funding the five mile link from Buckingham station to Silverstone with a triangle junction so it's accessible from London via Aylesbury & Oxford and from the North via the WCML and Bedford

As a community, we shouldn't be telling $Billion organisations who are prepared to spend £lots not to spend money on railway infrastructure!

So let's see a new private station with four 12-car bays and one through platform/line under a multi-storey car park.

(Through line to allow for a future link to Silverstone village and Towcester if it can be funded one day.)

Silverstone won't spend a penny on it. Why would they? Silverstone is Northamptonshire anyway.

 

[Zomboid]

Does Silverstone have to pay towards the various traffic management things that are done surrounding events there? I would imagine they would - but I don't know how many centuries of that they'd need to pay before they covered the cost of a rail link

 

[simonw]

Silverstone won't spend a penny on it. Why would they? Silverstone is Northamptonshire anyway.

I think it's safe to assume @BlueLeanie had their tongue firmly in their cheek.

 

[Falcon1200]

Apart from anything else, is there any guarantee that Silverstone will remain the venue for the British GP (or that there even is a British GP)?

 

[JamesT]

Apart from anything else, is there any guarantee that Silverstone will remain the venue for the British GP (or that there even is a British GP)?

I believe they have a contract with F1 until 2034.

 

[The Planner]

I think it's safe to assume @BlueLeanie had their tongue firmly in their cheek.

Im not convinced.

 

[NSE]

Apart from anything else, is there any guarantee that Silverstone will remain the venue for the British GP (or that there even is a British GP)?

As mentioned, the contract is for 2034, but with pro sports, if someone had enough money I’m sure they could change that…

Silverstone won't spend a penny on it. Why would they? Silverstone is Northamptonshire anyway.

It straddles both Northants and Bucks. Damon Hill was talking during the qualifying commentary about the changes they made to the track to keep it up to date had to be satisfied by both councils. So both would no doubt be involved in any railway station/transport plans.

 

[Brubulus]

While the idea of a specific rail link to Silverstone is ridiculous, the wider area still has limited rail links and rail connections for Buckingham, Brackley, Silverstone Parkway, Towcester and Daventry, or some subset thereof should be considered further.

Silverstone is a great site for a parkway station that enables rail travel from the surrounding hinterland, especially as MKC can be somewhat annoying to reach at peak times.

 

[popeter45]

if anything a spur off EWR or WCML would be a better option if anything was going to happen

 

[Snow1964]

But couldn't this be another Lewes bonfire/ Coventry stadium issue where the facility would be so overwhelmed by the traffic levels that it would end up shutting for safety reasons?

Rather depends on how it is built, many of the old special events stations (like the racecourse stations), could manage, and some seemed to cope with relatively narrow platforms. They generally had ramps and queuing lines to manage crowds when events finished.

Lewis is a odd example as some platforms have been taken out of use, so it can no longer cope due to deliberate capacity cut.

Some stations were built to cope the large amounts of people with luggage, eg Dover Marine, or hundreds of soldiers with full kit, eg Luggershall.

But of course if it is specified for an occasional 4car DMU, it won't cope.

 

[NSE]

Rather depends on how it is built, many of the old special events stations (like the racecourse stations), could manage, and some seemed to cope with relatively narrow platforms. They generally had ramps and queuing lines to manage crowds when events finished.

Lewis is a odd example as some platforms have been taken out of use, so it can no longer cope due to deliberate capacity cut.

Some stations were built to cope the large amounts of people with luggage, eg Dover Marine, or hundreds of soldiers with full kit, eg Luggershall.

But of course if it is specified for an occasional 4car DMU, it won't cope.

Yeah, there’s a tram stop near Old Trafford that is (to the naked eye) the usual tram sizes for things, but has lots and lots of queuing lines outside the station keeping the crowds safe and ordered (as well as football fans can be). Silverstone has plenty of space for queuing.

As for Lewes, it’s a bit of a unique one as it’s not a ticketed event so numbers are rather impossible to predict. Previous years give good indicators etc but still tricky to say.

 

[Donny Dave]

Having been to Silverstone in the past, I found traffic management to be well organised, with everyone getting onto the A43 in a reasonable amount of time, with the junction at the M1 free flowing, as the police prioritised traffic leaving the circuit over that leaving the M1 itself.

As for a rail link, is it really needed? At most, there is 5 busy weekends, with F1 and MotoGP drawing the big crowds, and the BTCC and BSB championships attracting about 35-40000 on race days. I'm not sure what size crowds you get for other events, but some of them will be tiny.