Simple Rules to Avoid Hassle

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6Gman

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Having been on this forum a few weeks now it strikes me there are a few rules which would help to avoid Penalty Fares, Bye-Law infringements, court appearances, CRB issues and big bills!

1. If you can buy a ticket before bording, DO! [Must admit, have been guilty in the past of assuming it can be sorted on-train. Not something I'm inclined to try in future.]

2. Having bought a ticket, KEEP IT! [Baffled by the number of people who discard tickets en route, assuming there will be no further checks]

3. When travelling ensure you have cash or other means to pay, so if you lose your ticket/ fall foul of a routeing confusion/ etc you can sort it there and then. A penalty fare is less painful than a court summons.

4. If your ticket requires other documentation (seat reservations, railcard etc etc) TAKE IT WITH YOU!

Other suggestions welcomed!
 
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bluenoxid

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Having been on this forum a few weeks now it strikes me there are a few rules which would help to avoid Penalty Fares, Bye-Law infringements, court appearances, CRB issues and big bills!

1. If you can buy a ticket before bording, DO! [Must admit, have been guilty in the past of assuming it can be sorted on-train. Not something I'm inclined to try in future.]

2. Having bought a ticket, KEEP IT! [Baffled by the number of people who discard tickets en route, assuming there will be no further checks]

3. When travelling ensure you have cash or other means to pay, so if you lose your ticket/ fall foul of a routeing confusion/ etc you can sort it there and then. A penalty fare is less painful than a court summons.

4. If your ticket requires other documentation (seat reservations, railcard etc etc) TAKE IT WITH YOU!

Other suggestions welcomed!

Sod them, Drive.
 

telstarbox

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2. Having bought a ticket, KEEP IT! [Baffled by the number of people who discard tickets en route, assuming there will be no further checks]

This is the hardest one to understand - why passengers don't keep them until they've left the destination station is beyond me!
 

causton

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Having been on this forum a few weeks now it strikes me there are a few rules which would help to avoid Penalty Fares, Bye-Law infringements, court appearances, CRB issues and big bills!

1. If you can buy a ticket before bording, DO! [Must admit, have been guilty in the past of assuming it can be sorted on-train. Not something I'm inclined to try in future.]

2. Having bought a ticket, KEEP IT! [Baffled by the number of people who discard tickets en route, assuming there will be no further checks]

3. When travelling ensure you have cash or other means to pay, so if you lose your ticket/ fall foul of a routeing confusion/ etc you can sort it there and then. A penalty fare is less painful than a court summons.

4. If your ticket requires other documentation (seat reservations, railcard etc etc) TAKE IT WITH YOU!

Other suggestions welcomed!

You don't have to pay a Penalty Fare on the spot ;)

and...

4a. When buying/collecting tickets from a TVM take *everything* with you and wait until they have finished printing! Even if there's a tonne of old card receipts in the bottom one of them may just be a hidden seat reservation you need for your advance ticket, or (as happened to me when I ran off too early) another ticket, e.g. a PlusBus ticket.
 

Yew

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This is the hardest one to understand - why passengers don't keep them until they've left the destination station is beyond me!

In unstaffed halts in the north it is rare to need a ticket after you have left the train, obviously different to travelling in the south around london. As argued in recent threads, it is jot defined when the bylaws stop applying you with regards to showing a ticket, after you get off the train? after the statute of limitations is up?. Im tempted to write to northern asking when you should dispose of a ticket.
 

Monty

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In unstaffed halts in the north it is rare to need a ticket after you have left the train, obviously different to travelling in the south around london. As argued in recent threads, it is jot defined when the bylaws stop applying you with regards to showing a ticket, after you get off the train? after the statute of limitations is up?. Im tempted to write to northern asking when you should dispose of a ticket.

It's irrelevent that station is a small unstaffed halt, you must keep ticket until you have completed your journey and have left the station premises. Byelaws stop applying when you have left railway property.

End of the day its not rocket science folks, you must buy the correct ticket at the earliest (not when it's convenient for you, I can not stress this bit enough) opportunity. Nine times out of ten this your starting station, if not it may well be the guard on the train or a excess fares booth at and interchange station if you have had to change trains. Or in very rare or exceptional circumstances it may be at the end of your journey (this could be at the ticket office or with an RPI).

Follow this and you can't go wrong, and if you are not sure about the ticket you need or have, ask! Contrary to popular belief we (rail staff) are here to help! :)
 

Flamingo

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This is the hardest one to understand - why passengers don't keep them until they've left the destination station is beyond me!

Because 9 times out of 10 they didn't have one to begin with?
 
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What's a ticket?
Where there are checks by RPIs, especially at unmanned stations, maybe an announcement. eg ''Please retain your ticket until you have exited your station - random tickets checks are in progress!'' (several weeks before the checks, or every day!)
 

Brucey

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How is an irregular passenger supposed to know when to dispose of their ticket?

You wouldn't hop off a bus and expect to show your ticket to a member of revenue protection at the bus stop. In fact, my local bus company's conditions of carriage specifically state that tickets should be disposed of before exiting the bus. Why should people not assume the same applies to train travel?
 

telstarbox

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You wouldn't hop off a bus and expect to show your ticket to a member of revenue protection at the bus stop. In fact, my local bus company's conditions of carriage specifically state that tickets should be disposed of before exiting the bus. Why should people not assume the same applies to train travel?

It's not the same because the bus driver checks or issues a ticket to everyone who gets on the bus.
 

Monty

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How is an irregular passenger supposed to know when to dispose of their ticket?

You wouldn't hop off a bus and expect to show your ticket to a member of revenue protection at the bus stop. In fact, my local bus company's conditions of carriage specifically state that tickets should be disposed of before exiting the bus. Why should people not assume the same applies to train travel?

By reading the national rail conditions of carriage, it is in the interest of the passenger to read them.
 

ainsworth74

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By reading the national rail conditions of carriage, it is in the interest of the passenger to read them.

Well technically it's more than just being in their interest because by buying the ticket they've agreed to abide by them! Only much like software EULAs no-body reads them and everyone agrees to them.
 

Yew

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By reading the national rail conditions of carriage, it is in the interest of the passenger to read them.

And then the railway byelaws, and the RoRA, then the routeing guide, Advance Fare FAQ ad maybe one or two other documents.
 

ainsworth74

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And then the railway byelaws, and the RoRA, then the routeing guide, Advance Fare FAQ ad maybe one or two other documents.

Well they shouldn't need to read RoRA as if they've read the NRCoC and Byelaws they should be aware of their responsibilities and wouldn't fall foul of that legislation (unless they were evading a fare). Similarly with the routeing guide for about 99% of passengers there would be no need to consult the routeing guide as many will be using a direct train (always valid) or following a route that they got from an online journey planner or staff in which case it will also most likely be valid (and certainly unlikely to be challenged). They shouldn't need to read the Advance Fare FAQ as that's part of the manual and staff should be aware of it's provisions and how to treat customers in the varying situations described. These documents would be useful but I wouldn't say it's vital or particularly in their interests to read them. I'd also be curious to know what these other documents they maybe need to read are beyond those.

To be honest the only things that passengers should need to read 99% of the time are the NRCoC and the Byelaws (not that that isn't a lot by itself!).
 

bb21

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In fact, my local bus company's conditions of carriage specifically state that tickets should be disposed of before exiting the bus. Why should people not assume the same applies to train travel?

Can I enquire as to which company this is?
 

Monty

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And then the railway byelaws, and the RoRA, then the routeing guide, Advance Fare FAQ ad maybe one or two other documents.

All you need is in the conditions of travel, if you read it properly and follow the infomation contained within it there is no need to read anything else.
 

MikeWh

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You wouldn't hop off a bus and expect to show your ticket to a member of revenue protection at the bus stop.

I would have agreed with you until a few months ago when that is exactly what happened at the main bus stop in Bexleyheath town centre. Everyone getting off the bus had to show their Oyster to an inspector and there were 2-3 ensuring that you couldn't escape from the exit doors. After the bus had left I asked what about people who might have just disposed of a paper ticket and was told that they would (a) check the issuing machine to see how many tickets had been sold as just about everyone uses Oyster now in London, and (b) search the bus if necessary.
 

RJ

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I would have agreed with you until a few months ago when that is exactly what happened at the main bus stop in Bexleyheath town centre. Everyone getting off the bus had to show their Oyster to an inspector and there were 2-3 ensuring that you couldn't escape from the exit doors. After the bus had left I asked what about people who might have just disposed of a paper ticket and was told that they would (a) check the issuing machine to see how many tickets had been sold as just about everyone uses Oyster now in London, and (b) search the bus if necessary.

The bendy buses were also subjected to such checks on a regular basis.

 

Brucey

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Can I enquire as to which company this is?

It was a local company, which has now been taken over by Stagecoach. It appears the standard Stagecoach conditions have now replace the former operator's conditions.
 

4SRKT

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Anyone who thinks that anybody except a lawyer or a ticketing enthusiast is going to read the NRCoC before nipping into town on a train, a transaction that should be as mundane as buying a Mars Bar, is more out of touch with reality than a High Court Judge who's been stranded in the Amazon for the last ten years.

I've never read them, not could I bring myself to wade through them. Yet somehow I, despite making complex journeys on outwardly bizarre combinations of tickets, am always travelling legal and never get pulled up.
 

Flamingo

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Just to get to the heart of the matter, the Railway has required people to buy tickets for travel since the 19th century, and has checked tickets from passengers leaving for the same period (approaching 200 years now).

Anyone saying they didn't think they needed a ticket, or didn't think it would be checked on the way out is being a bit disingenuous, or probably should not be allowed out on their own.
 

rdwarr

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You wouldn't hop off a bus and expect to show your ticket to a member of revenue protection at the bus stop.

You would if you'd witnessed any of the "Bendy Bus Swoops" in London ;)

(Sorry - I see that was already mentioned)
 

Lad Brookes

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How is an irregular passenger supposed to know when to dispose of their ticket?

You wouldn't hop off a bus and expect to show your ticket to a member of revenue protection at the bus stop. In fact, my local bus company's conditions of carriage specifically state that tickets should be disposed of before exiting the bus. Why should people not assume the same applies to train travel?

When you leave a train, you'll typically still be on 'railway property'.
When you leave a bus, you'll typically be on a public road.
 

4SRKT

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Just to get to the heart of the matter, the Railway has required people to buy tickets for travel since the 19th century, and has checked tickets from passengers leaving for the same period (approaching 200 years now).

Anyone saying they didn't think they needed a ticket, or didn't think it would be checked on the way out is being a bit disingenuous, or probably should not be allowed out on their own.

I guess this about sums it up.
 

Skymonster

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After the bus had left I asked what about people who might have just disposed of a paper ticket and was told that they would (a) check the issuing machine to see how many tickets had been sold as just about everyone uses Oyster now in London, and (b) search the bus if necessary.

Ah, if only railway RPIs were so helpful...! But no - "Left your ticket on the train sir..? That'll be a penalty or a report for a byelaw offence. Thankyou very much!"
 

GadgetMan

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Another basic step;

Check your tickets BEFORE boarding a train,

It is incredible how many employees who have their tickets supplied to them by an Admin department don't open the envelope and inspect their tickets until approached by on train revenue staff.

Which often leads onto common problems like the travel date is wrong, origin/destination may be wrong as they've collected someone else's tickets etc.
 
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Skymonster

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All you need is in the conditions of travel, if you read it properly and follow the infomation contained within it there is no need to read anything else.

Until someone in the railway (who actually has the influence do something about it) realises that the NRCoC are just too complex for the casual passenger to quickly digest through simple reading - if they weren't complex, half the topics on this board wouldn't be started - people are going to get ensnared and either end up paying more than they need through penalties or being on the first step towards a prosecution.

Its really is too much to expect the average casual passenger to understand everything actually in and implied by the NRCoC, especially when there's regional / TOC variations in [for example] whether or not penalty fares apply, whether or not they will be able to buy on board, whether or not they can upgrade on the train, when peak and off-peak start and finish... More than anything else, the railway needs a one-rule-fits all approach for each of these (and many other) situations. Of course, there will be those who say one-rule-fits-all would be too difficult / expensive / inconvenient to implement across the entire network, and whilst those sorts of views prevail it suits the railway to do nothing and raise additional revenue by snag the innocent but maybe niave passenger.
 
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