Simplification at Lockerbie- What a Joke

[glynn80]

In the ticket queue at Lockerbie station the person in front asks for a ticket to Preston on the 07:40 dep, they are sold an Off-Peak Return which is actually valid at any time.

Then the second person in the queue asks for a return to Motherwell on the 07:43 dep and I suppose I'll need an Anytime "Day" Return £14.90, the ticket clerk refuses as the Anytime Day is not valid until 0930!!, they are then sold an Anytime Return for £23.00, £8.10 extra.

This is an example of how stupid Simplification is, there is actually an Anytime Day Return that IS NOT valid at ANYTIME, it is RESTRICTED with validity B1!! And from the same station and Off Peak Return that IS valid at ANYTIME.

 

[me123]

It certainly is more complicated than it was; just proof I guess that simpllification does have a hidden meaning. Although, to be fair, Lockerbie is a bit of a strange station as passengers are allowed to travel south from Glasgow/Edinburgh and change back at Carlisle.

 

[yorkie]

That's funny!

Clearly ATOC lied.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/simple_fares.html

Anytime fares are fully flexible tickets, with no restrictions on when you can travel. Perfect for people who need complete flexibility.

You can buy Anytime tickets any time before you travel and you can use your ticket to travel on any train.

They are actually restricted in some cases, apparently!!

Off-Peak fares are cheaper tickets for travelling on trains that are less busy.

Oh yeah? the 0700 EDB-KGX (first "off peak" train) is really "less busy" than the 0550 EDB-KGX? Err, whatever! On the ECML the first trains to allow "Off Peak" (formerly Saver) tickets are actually busier. Only a few business people can afford the peak time trains, I have got AP tickets on the 08:00 from York and had half a coach to myself before. On the 09:35 from York I am lucky to get a seat! Further proof that ATOC are living in a world of their own!

Offering good value for money, these tickets may require you to travel at specific times of day, days of the week or on a specific route.

But some Off Peak fares are valid at any time!!!

Where there is more than one Off-Peak fare for a journey, the cheaper fare with more restrictions will be called Super Off-Peak..

What about York-Donny? Off Peak is valid at any time (technically it is not valid between approx 1am and approx 4am when no trains run! haha) but there is more than one off peak fare, it is called an Off Peak day and is not valid until 10am, it is NOT called Super Off Peak. The addition of "Day" makes it valid after 10am instead of after 4am!!!!

I could go on....!!

 

[adamp]

This new system thing is bloody confusing, I was getting used to the old one. Now I havent a clue what im buying, or wether its valid after this time or that.
I heard apparently 'we' asked for the new system?
Really?

 

[richa2002]

About as simple as 348579345345 x 8935923849234723 without the use of a calculator. 8)

 

[glynn80]

It certainly is more complicated than it was; just proof I guess that simpllification does have a hidden meaning. Although, to be fair, Lockerbie is a bit of a strange station as passengers are allowed to travel south from Glasgow/Edinburgh and change back at Carlisle.

The main issue is basically there is a fare named Anytime Day Return that is not valid at Anytime which is just ridiculous.

 

[yorkie]

Also look at the attached file showing fares from Lockerbie to Glasgow (singles).

See how the Anytime single just blends in to the mix of Advance singles, would be easy to 'simply' miss it! Oh, and Anytime Day is £1.30 more expensive than Anytime! :???: Both are only valid for a day though! Note that I have highlighted these walk-on fares with a red box. Without that, it is very easy to miss these walk-on fares.

 

[Jonfun]

In my layman's point of view, back before "Simplification" we had a nice range of tickets, we had a fair idea of each tickets restriction, so we knew that there would be a good ticket for us somewhere. It wasn't actually that confusing, everyone got by.

I mean, there I was thinking that a ticket called 'Anytime' would actually be valid at any time! The only word to describe this shakeup is 'Farce'. If anything, This has made things drastically worse - after reading lots of posts, peoples opinions et cetera, I'm more confused than i was before!

 

[rail-britain]

Isn't part of the current confusion due to the old fares now carrying the new names, but once 07 September arrives that problem no longer exists
I noticed this at Glasgow Central last night when a customer was being sold a Saver ticket and the agent had to cancel and reprint the ticket several times as it kept printing out "AnyTime Off Peak", with growls of "No, that's not what I put in"
The agent that was serving myself then went across and confirmed that what had been printed was indeed correct, providing the customer travel before 07 September AND make their return journey portion before that date as well

It was almost the same when SuperSaver was done away with several years
Some sales agents understood that SuperSaver could still be sold, whilst others point blank refused or didn't know

However, it is strange that an Advance Single is MORE expensive than the Anytime Single
Giving a choice, of travelling on any train that day or one specific train for slightly more...

Also, don't forget that TOCs are still free to provide their own range of fares where passengers travel exclusively with them, and I suspect we will see more of this next year, especially between Glasgow and London, and Edinburgh and Birmingham
Stagecoach (Virgin Trains) already do it through their megatrains.com website

 

[yorkie]

evolvi has all the new fares and names - just put a date on or after 08 september.

thetrainline is getting confused but Evolvi isn't. any errors are the fault of the TOCs doing silly things not evolvi getting confused.

 

[furryfeet]

what makes you think that there will me more TOC specific fares next year ?

what is different next year from this year ?

Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow is now a virgin monopoly since the cross-country franchise was altered last November, so i fail to see where the competition is going to come from. When it was virgin WC versus virgin XC on this route there was an element of competition in the fares, certainly for apex, which made tickets more reasonably priced than they are now.

 

[glynn80]

what makes you think that there will me more TOC specific fares next year ?

what is different next year from this year ?

Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow is now a virgin monopoly since the cross-country franchise was altered last November, so i fail to see where the competition is going to come from. When it was virgin WC versus virgin XC on this route there was an element of competition in the fares, certainly for apex, which made tickets more reasonably priced than they are now.

Virgin WC were competing with their own sister company Virgin XC, not too sure about that seeing as they both used the Virgin Value Advance model.

They were trying to compete mainly with GNER/ First Scotrail to London as they had a monopoly really on the West Coast route to Scotland so no need to artificially decrease their fares, to compete with one another on that route as they were already getting the majority of traffic.

They are much more likely now to be in competition with First TPE though, who now operate on the West Coast route to Scotland also, so it is actually the situation currently there is real competition for Virgin (if you can call it that with TPE's journey times and rolling stock).

 

[nedchester]

evolvi has all the new fares and names - just put a date on or after 08 september.

thetrainline is getting confused but Evolvi isn't. any errors are the fault of the TOCs doing silly things not evolvi getting confused.

Evolvi's great but it always says this as you sign in

"It is an offence to access the programs and data held on this system unless you have been granted access and provided with an official password and user ID. If you are not an authorised user disconnect immediately."

What criminal offence are you committing if you want to find out the price of a train ticket?????

 

[Pumbaa]

You wouldn't happen to have saved London - Bishopbriggs as a favourite journey would you Yorkie??

Yes simplification is a call for unfair fare rises!

 

[glynn80]

Evolvi's great but it always says this as you sign in

"It is an offence to access the programs and data held on this system unless you have been granted access and provided with an official password and user ID. If you are not an authorised user disconnect immediately."

What criminal offence are you committing if you want to find out the price of a train ticket?????

There is actually a test site for prospective customers with all the information the real site has except it doesn't book tickets at the end, if you want the details PM me.

 

[rail-britain]

Birmingham to Edinburgh / Glasgow is now a virgin monopoly

Not entirely, there are several choices :
Virgin West Coast
Virgin West Coast / Transpennine Express
Arriva CrossCountry
Arriva CrossCountry / NXEC
FSR / Virgin Trains
Staff at Glasgow Central are giving sales priority to the first two, but the other two still remain as options even if the journey is an hour longer!

 

[nedchester]

There is actually a test site for prospective customers with all the information the real site has except it doesn't book tickets at the end, if you want the details PM me.

It's OK I've already got those details which is how I use the site.

 

[furryfeet]

i should have been more specific.
i was referring to the situation on the west coast route.

tpe only run as far south as preston, so yes there is some choice north of preston, but not south of it.

 

[rail-britain]

Further clarifying the point, the passenger is travelling from either Glasgow or Edinburgh to Birmingham
The options are pretty much unchanged since CrossCountry was split between TPE and Arriva
However, travelling on CrossCountry the journey is one hour longer, but this is useful to some passengers who are travelling to the East Midlands and who had have to otherwise travel to Birmingham on VWC and then travel a further hour where the CrossCountry service has just been
Equally, to travel on CrossCountry the departures from Glasgow and Edinburgh are all early morning, and from Birmingham are all before afternoon, whereas with VWC the service is pretty much every two hours throughout the day