Single justice procedure notice

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by henryjs, 14 Apr 2019.

  1. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    Hi I have a couple of questions.

    1. According to the file attached I am being charged on two counts. Am I correct in assuming these are bylaw breaches and therefore non-recordable?(heard somewhere it might be recordable if it is more than one offence)
    2. I have pasted the letter I sent to greater anglia prior to getting this court summons below. The ticket inspector said something which I believe is in breach of the equality act. If I make a complaint under the equality act are they entitled to take me to court again under harsher legislation if they have already taken me to court for the matter under a bylaw breach?

    ———————————————————-
    Dear Sir/Madam,

    I will attempt to clarify the incident in question and provide my own perspective on events.

    As you are aware I was travelling in first class without a valid ticket for that section of the train. I always get a later train for the most part; there are barely any seats available on the Stansted Express at that time and it was particularly busy that day. However, I was under stress and needed to get into work as early as possible. I have very poor knees due to the effects of operations on them both and find it difficult to stand for extended periods. The inspector caught me and proceeded to issue me with a fine which I had every intention of paying.

    I did not have a method of payment on me and she gave me a form to fill in. As I just stated, I had every intention to pay at this point. However, as I began filling it in I noticed a couple who had been talking to an inspector whilst sitting down in the next booth, get up and stand by the door. This rankled with me greatly and I had a back and forth with the inspector. Initially she claimed they “had a valid ticket”, which seemed bizarre to me as they were still standing up by the door and remained there until Tottenham Hale. Eventually she suggested that they hadn’t been fined because they were foreign. She quickly changed her story back to the one where they had a supposedly valid ticket. Later I questioned her on the platform and she seemed to suggest that it was company policy not to issue tickets to people of a different nationality. I was outraged as this would be discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. A complaint to this effect was raised through your website. Reference:

    To date I have not received a reply regarding this matter and it has been well over a month. This complaint explains the event in detail and asks for clarification.

    As previously mentioned I had every intention of paying the fine. After the two people were allowed to get away with what was clearly the exact same offence that I had committed right in front of my face I felt Indignant and hard done by. I was clearly being lied to and decided to give a false address. This was not the right thing to do but I was beside myself at this point and I was even more furious after it was suggested that they had not been fined because of their nationality.

    I have been commuting for around a year now and accept what I did was not correct. I should have paid and raised a complaint after the event. However, the feeling that I was being discriminated against coupled with stress has caused me to act in a way that is uncharacteristic.

    Two wrongs do not make a right and I have a desire to settle any penalty fare that is currently outstanding. I have not been issued with one to my knowledge.

    Yours Faithfully
     

    Attached Files:

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  3. 221129

    221129 Established Member

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    They are both Bylaw offences and do not carry a criminal record. You're extremely lucky that they haven't opted for a more serious charge which they would win.
     
  4. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

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    The fact that there might have been other passengers on the train without valid tickets has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you were caught without a valid ticket.
     
  5. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    Thanks for clarifying. I know I made a terrible error of judgement.
    In the court document it says that I will acquire a criminal conviction if I plead guilty. How does this differ from a record? Is it just that it isn’t ‘recorded’ for want of a better word?
     
  6. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    Yeah I know I made a mistake. I reacted rashly as 2 people clearly got let off in front of me and the inspector proceeded to say they had a valid ticket when they remained standing by the door for the next 40 mins.
     
  7. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

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    Apols if I have misunderstood, and I can imagine the Inspector not being clear, but I must say you seem to (perhaps) be confusing a perception of race (visible colour of skin?) with nationality. You say the staff member said the other passengers were foreign, it's an airport express, so it may well be that the rail staff member knows in practice that issuing penalty notices to people with addresses overseas is a waste of time in terms of collection rates / enforcement for said penalties, not to mind a great welcome to the UK - or its rail system...

    Obv this is not good if you then go on to issue a penalty to others in nearby seats for the same offence. Equality Act would seem to be of little relevance really.
     
  8. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    Check the basics first. Was the notice pointed out to you at the time - was it definitely visible as per 19 and using compliant wording? Did either the inspector or you check and perhaps take a picture of it? Was it explained to you before you gave a false address that your details were required because you were suspected of breaching this byelaw as per 23(2)?

     
    Last edited: 14 Apr 2019
  9. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

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    Tho if you want to complain about an organisation under the Equalities Act, complain to the Equalities Commission and let Anglia justify their ticket enforcement policies to the commission, I doubt much point in complaining to said organisation (Anglia) that you regard as breaching it, unless you intend to take enforcement action against them yourself, as it were.
     
  10. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    Ah ok, to be honest I probably won’t complain. In response to your previous post nationality is counted as part of race under the equality act. Hence it is discrimination. I really don’t get the logic in not fining tourists as most have cash/card payment methods. Even if they don’t end up paying it stops anybody feeling hard done by.
     
  11. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    Yeah, I know I am guilty of the offences. The trains are so packed, mostly full of tourists who have bags on seats. Stupid thing to have done but it is how it is.
     
  12. furlong

    furlong Established Member

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    If you read other threads on here involving G.A., you'll see cases where people apologise and try to agree out-of-court settlements.
     
  13. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    I have apologised and offered to settle for £350 when they are only fining me £170. Still no reply to that email.
     
  14. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    If you have received a Single Justice Procedure Notice, then this a letter from the courts, not the train company.

    These will not create a criminal record in most senses of the word - it should not be recorded on the Police National Computer and you do not have to declare it. My understanding is that it is held on local records by police and the Magistrates Court (see here).

    They will not prosecute you twice for the same offence, no, and will not add a second prosecution on the basis of you filing a complaint
     
  15. henryjs

    henryjs Member

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    Thank you very much, that’s good to know.
     
  16. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

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    Thanks - I take your point
     
  17. jumble

    jumble Member

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    There is no effective method of extracting cash on the spot
    There is no effective way of verifying the foreigner's address
    The foreigner will in all likelyhood not "Speak" any English
    Therefore it is a waste of time issuing fines when the RPI's and Backffice admin time could be better off being used to issue fines to a UK based miscreants
    There is a cost to issuing fines in wages and overheads
    I am convinced that I got away with a traffic offence in USA as I an sure the policeman decided that I might well leave the states without paying ( I would have actually paid as I would want to come back)
     
  18. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

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    Yes, points well made too. I suspect that the mistake the inspector made was mentioning to the OP that the other alleged offenders in the 1st class area "hadn’t been fined because they were foreign. She quickly changed her story back to the one where they had a supposedly valid ticket. Later I questioned her on the platform and she seemed to suggest that it was company policy not to issue tickets to people of a different nationality"
    when of course in reality the Inspector is making an operational decision to work in the most efficient manner, in this case focus on the people most likely to end up paying. But of course such an approach is always going to fuel resentment.

    An approach that leads to this sort of headline:
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...dge-Dartford-Tunnel-toll-1-MILLION-times.html
     
  19. WesternLancer

    WesternLancer Member

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    Or I should say possibly making an operational decision...
     
  20. some bloke

    some bloke Member

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    You might have to declare it for particular unusual jobs, in which case you should be told the job is exempt from the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. For most jobs you won't have to declare it unless asked, and that only for a limited period. See here and the linked threads:
     

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