Skegness 2021 replacement for usual hst sets

richardderby

Member
Joined
20 Nov 2010
Messages
227
is there any news what EMR are planning this summer, as the HST service finished for good in September 2020. I understand EMR are planning to increase the timetabled service, but will 222 trains operate over the route this year. with a large increase again in summer staycations, I imagine the usual mix of 2, 3. or 4 car 150/156 class units will not suffice...
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Roast Veg

Established Member
Joined
28 Oct 2016
Messages
1,444
A 4 car 156 has more seats than a 7 car 222 doesn't it? It would make more sense to stack as many 156s and 158s together as possible.
 

class26

Member
Joined
4 May 2011
Messages
931
The best guess now is that units will do the honours in 2022 and the new 800 series trains will be used when available in subsequent years
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
15,363
Location
West of Andover
How does that work?
222s have a lower seat density compared to a 156. Also having 3 coaches of 2+1 seating doesn't help that seat numbers.

I agree with Warwickshire, keeping the 153s would be good to boost capacity on the line, especially as it will probably be busier this summer than previously due to a larger number of domestic holidays
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
17,055
Location
Manchester
I'm fairly sure that six car sprinter sets can work Nottingham to Skegness can't they? Obviously only if one can be resourced but still.
 

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
1,999
The service will be resourced using 15x and 170s. No other train type will be seen East of Grantham.
 

Brunswick

Member
Joined
29 May 2013
Messages
15
What about space for the worldly belongings people take with them on holiday, no luggage van area to sttack suitcases etc, not much room on modern units . It’s not just about people
 

class26

Member
Joined
4 May 2011
Messages
931
What about space for the worldly belongings people take with them on holiday, no luggage van area to sttack suitcases etc, not much room on modern units . It’s not just about people
Don`t worry, they just put cases on the seats, along with their feet and the rest of their worldly possessions !
I try to avoid travelling on the line during summer Fridays or Saturdays as it can be impossible to get a seat.
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
1,445
What about space for the worldly belongings people take with them on holiday, no luggage van area to sttack suitcases etc, not much room on modern units . It’s not just about people

Class 156s have a massive parcels area, can’t be far off the van space of a TGS
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
10,615
Maybe they just might for this summer use 153s ie keep them on and also get dispensation on a few more for this purpose.
If you keep non-compliant 153s on for this purpose, you might just as well keep non-compliant HSTs.
 

richardderby

Member
Joined
20 Nov 2010
Messages
227
would be wonderful if we could have HST's back for another summer on the Jolly Fisherman, they are very popular, and do a wonderful job with the hordes!
I see there are no through trains from Derby booked on Saturday's this summer...
 

Attachments

  • IMG_20200912_121729.jpg
    IMG_20200912_121729.jpg
    2.9 MB · Views: 157
  • IMG_20200912_121839.jpg
    IMG_20200912_121839.jpg
    3.3 MB · Views: 154
  • IMG_20200912_121757.jpg
    IMG_20200912_121757.jpg
    3.6 MB · Views: 158

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
1,445
If you keep non-compliant 153s on for this purpose, you might just as well keep non-compliant HSTs.

One thing I can’t quite get my head round is why you need exemptions for 153 PROVIDED they are coupled to a through gangwayed and compliant unit such as a 156. I guess it would be compliant if you permanently made the sets up to say a 3 car with a 153/156 combo.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
10,615
One thing I can’t quite get my head round is why you need exemptions for 153 PROVIDED they are coupled to a through gangwayed and compliant unit such as a 156. I guess it would be compliant if you permanently made the sets up to say a 3 car with a 153/156 combo.
It's because compliance is not just about toilets. There are a number of other items that require modification to be compliant, including door sounders, passenger information systems, grab rail/handle position and colour contrast, priority seats etc etc. Even if you make them compliant except the toilets there needs to be an exemption that effectively makes it mandatory to run them with another fully modified unit - otherwise someone would run them solo!
 

HamworthyGoods

Established Member
Joined
15 Jan 2019
Messages
1,445
It's because compliance is not just about toilets. There are a number of other items that require modification to be compliant, including door sounders, passenger information systems, grab rail/handle position and colour contrast, priority seats etc etc. Even if you make them compliant except the toilets there needs to be an exemption that effectively makes it mandatory to run them with another fully modified unit - otherwise someone would run them solo!
Good point I had forgotten about PIS. Was thinking you could permanently firm up some sets otherwise.
 

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
1,999
Interestingly, and a surprise to me, 1S01-04 have appeared in Real Time Trains starting July 24th and presumable finishing the first or second week of September. Slightly more station calls than previously provided as well.

 

delt1c

Established Member
Joined
4 Apr 2008
Messages
1,821
Most people who are holidaying in the UK will most likely use their cars to get to their acomodation, where the railways can benefit is the day trip trade. So luggage space isnt such an issue, however it is a chance for the companys to show the benifit of rail travel, dont send out a 4 car 150 as if its rammed its hardly likely to encourage repeat custom
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
23,746
Location
Redcar
Well, at least there should be more room for 'normal' passengers as I suspect these will be far less appealing to enthusiasts! :lol:
 

Qwerty133

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2012
Messages
2,417
Location
Leicester/Sheffield
If you keep non-compliant 153s on for this purpose, you might just as well keep non-compliant HSTs.
For a start because it would be much easier to resource the use of 153s than HSTs on the route so operationally given the choice you'd opt for the 153 every time. The use of HSTs on the route has always been sub-optimal from an operational perspective and was only ever done because of a shortage of available sprinters and just about every year leads to at least one cancellation for staffing reasons as there are literally a handful of staff trained on stock and route whereas the 153s can be worked by just about every member of staff who signs the route.
 

153375

Member
Joined
1 Apr 2015
Messages
63
Location
Boston
Interestingly, and a surprise to me, 1S01-04 have appeared in Real Time Trains starting July 24th and presumable finishing the first or second week of September. Slightly more station calls than previously provided as well.

Wasn’t there talk of using class 222’s on these services this summer provided they get route clearance as currently only cleared as far as Sleaford IIRC.
 

LowLevel

Established Member
Joined
26 Oct 2013
Messages
5,410
Most people who are holidaying in the UK will most likely use their cars to get to their acomodation, where the railways can benefit is the day trip trade. So luggage space isnt such an issue, however it is a chance for the companys to show the benifit of rail travel, dont send out a 4 car 150 as if its rammed its hardly likely to encourage repeat custom

Not true regarding Skegness. A significant demographic who may not have access to a car like to travel that way and seeing the parcels or luggage vans on the train piled floor to ceiling is not unusual. All three luggage vans on the HSTs were often in use, both power cars and the guard's van. Same applies with 15x traction, extra station staff are taken on at Skegness in the summer and managers and office staff help at Nottingham and Grantham.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
10,615
For a start because it would be much easier to resource the use of 153s than HSTs on the route so operationally given the choice you'd opt for the 153 every time. The use of HSTs on the route has always been sub-optimal from an operational perspective and was only ever done because of a shortage of available sprinters and just about every year leads to at least one cancellation for staffing reasons as there are literally a handful of staff trained on stock and route whereas the 153s can be worked by just about every member of staff who signs the route.
In a nutshell operational convenience rather than providing what is needed for passengers: plenty of seats and luggage space.

But that's the railway's attitude to lots of things customer related: we can't be bothered, it's too much effort.
 

Starmill

Veteran Member
Associate Staff
Events Co-ordinator
Joined
18 May 2012
Messages
17,055
Location
Manchester
The increase in calls at Bingham is very interesting. Maybe it was identified that there's a large proportion of summer holiday traffic from there, out of all of the minor stations on the route.
 

Qwerty133

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2012
Messages
2,417
Location
Leicester/Sheffield
In a nutshell operational convenience rather than providing what is needed for passengers: plenty of seats and luggage space.

But that's the railway's attitude to lots of things customer related: we can't be bothered, it's too much effort.
The use of HSTs was not great from a passenger perspective either in all honesty as the operational limitations meant that they couldn't stay in service into the afternoon or be used on weekdays during school holidays which also saw significant passenger in excess of what could realistically be accommodated without a knock impact on other services (which used to see people being left behind on these other routes).
 

bunnahabhain

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
1,999
For a start because it would be much easier to resource the use of 153s than HSTs on the route so operationally given the choice you'd opt for the 153 every time. The use of HSTs on the route has always been sub-optimal from an operational perspective and was only ever done because of a shortage of available sprinters and just about every year leads to at least one cancellation for staffing reasons as there are literally a handful of staff trained on stock and route whereas the 153s can be worked by just about every member of staff who signs the route.
What rot. I know everybody who signs them as a Guard and a Driver and its a matter of pride for almost all of us to not let a service be cancelled. A lot of work has gone into ensuring they run including the training of two drivers and a manager on Sheffield to Neville Hill including diversionary routes when both services were in jeopardy during the Derby blockade.

I don't know of any services that have been cancelled due to a lack of traincrew since 2013. In 2020 we even resourced multiple short notice additional services to enable social distancing, including some members of staff being called in at an hours notice and others having their shift extended considerably to resource them.
 

Top