Sleepless residents call for tube speed restrictions

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Shimbleshanks

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From the BBC News website:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51183301


Residents in the City of London have called for speed restrictions on late night Tube trains to ease "unacceptable high levels of noise and vibration".

Tube trains pass over points 5m (16ft) below Brandon Mews in the Barbican in east London.

Residents have said the problem has got worse because of new trains and cuts to Transport for London's (TfL) maintenance budget.

TfL said it was "determined to reduce noise and vibration where practicable".

A trial of temporary speed restrictions on the Hammersmith and City and Metropolitan lines under Brandon Mews saw cut noise levels by seven decibels.

The last trains run about 00:30 GMT and start up again at 05:13.
Barbican Association member Richard Collins, who has been lobbying TfL to tackle the problem, told the Local Democracy Reporting Service: "Some people are badly affected, it has been very intrusive."

He said when the trains run "it is fairly constant with trains running at about three-minute intervals".

"What we would like to see is the removal of the crossovers, where the trains can switch between the eastbound and westbound tracks to Aldgate.

"That's really key and we would like TfL to have a higher maintenance budget."

TfL has laid new track for about 200m (650ft) between Barbican and Moorgate stations which reduced the noise for some residents, but not for people living in Brandon Mews, according to Mr Collins.

Esther Sharples, London Underground's director of asset operations, said she understood "the importance of minimising noise levels".

"We have been working closely with the City of London to explore what solutions may be viable to minimise Tube noise levels for Barbican residents.

"A number of track renewals have been carried out in the area to improve the noise levels and we are determined to do all we practicably can to be a good neighbour."
 
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edwin_m

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"What we would like to see is the removal of the crossovers, where the trains can switch between the eastbound and westbound tracks to Aldgate.
Brandon Mews is nowhere near Aldgate. I think they must mean Moorgate, where at least the crossing moves are fairly occasional not every five minutes or so. Would a swing-nose crossing work in the sort of tight geometry needed on the Underground?

As someone who once spent a night in summer in a room facing out of the back of the Kings Cross Travelodge I have some sympathy. There's a short section of open air on the Widened Lines just behind where the trains burst out and rattle for a few seconds before disappearing again. I don't think they had air conditioning at the time, either that or the windows weren't soundproofed.
 

The_Train

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The railway was there before the residents.

This! The residents surely knew of the railway in close vicinity when they decided to buy/rent their property.

The WCML is about 100 yards away from my bed and there is no break in the night as heavy freights fly by but who doesn't like to be woken up by the roaring noise of a class 37 :E
 

sprunt

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The railway was there before the residents.

Residents have said the problem has got worse because of new trains and cuts to Transport for London's (TfL) maintenance budget.

But not, apparently, causing the same issues, which have arisen due to the railway changing its working practices.


Brandon Mews is nowhere near Aldgate. I think they must mean Moorgate, where at least the crossing moves are fairly occasional not every five minutes or so.

Does the crossover have to take place to cause the disturbance, or is it just passing over the points that causes the noise?
 

philthetube

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I suspect that the sound is probably different rather than louder, I cannot imagine a S stock train being louder than a rattly A stock with loud compressors and no air suspension.
 

Aictos

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The railway was there before the residents.

Doesn't matter if the railway was there a month or 100 years, TOCs and Network Rail are supposed to be good neighbours, take into account noise that might affect local neighbours and take any action deemed needed to minimized any potential noise pollution.

Even if you disagree with the policy with the view that well the railway was there first, that doesn't wash at all and as as daft as it seems, it's official policy so we have to abide by it.

Don't ask me why the policy is as it is, it just is.
 

PeterC

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Doesn't matter if the railway was there a month or 100 years, TOCs and Network Rail are supposed to be good neighbours, take into account noise that might affect local neighbours and take any action deemed needed to minimized any potential noise pollution.

Even if you disagree with the policy with the view that well the railway was there first, that doesn't wash at all and as as daft as it seems, it's official policy so we have to abide by it.

Don't ask me why the policy is as it is, it just is.
Not helped when developers try to wriggle out of planning conditions that make them responsible for designing in mitigation for existing noise sources.
 

Aictos

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Not helped when developers try to wriggle out of planning conditions that make them responsible for designing in mitigation for existing noise sources.

Indeed but what could be done to enforce the planning conditions?
 

Starmill

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There is a legal duty that goes beyond "we were here first" as a response to a complaint that you're creating adverse effects on your neighbour.
 

Busaholic

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I worked at 55 Broadway right over the District Line tracks and never heard any noise, or got any vibrations, from the railway, but then went to work for Camden Council on Euston Road and, especially in the evenings when road traffic noise was less, was certainly aware of the Hamm and City under our building although it wasn't loud.
 

Mojo

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The railway was... Was the increased timetable? Doubt it.
There is no increased Timetable, whilst there have been minor tweaks here and there the service frequency is broadly the same as it has been for a very good number of years. The last major change (not including the temporary early finish of the Met line 3 days a week for engineering work) was probably the changes to the Circle & Hammersmith line in 2009 (which barely registers on this section anyway), and before that the increased frequency to Met line services through to the City which came a while before.
 

PG

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Not railway related but in the case that I was thinking of it was the developers trying to have the planning conditions overturned.
I get the feeling some developers see planning conditions like some TOCs see franchise commitments - If it's cheap/easy then fine otherwise they get quietly forgotten about... :(
 

trainmania100

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Would mind living in London regardless of the noise , they should come to expect noise living in the capital city
 

Rogmi

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The crossovers are west of Moorgate station.

There are two crossover areas. One is the emergency crossover for reversing E-W and W-E from the two through platforms (1+2), the other is the pair of crossovers that give access to the two terminating platforms (3+4). I don’t think that LU will remove these vital crossovers just because a few people are getting sleepless nights!
http://carto.metro.free.fr/cartes/m....php?gpslat=51.518736&gpslon=-0.090638&zoom=5

As regards to LU actually doing something to reduce the noise, I would reckon that the chance is next to zero!

There has been very bad, loud noise from the wheel / track interface on the southern section of the Northern line (and in other places) for years. This noise lasts for quite some time and is very uncomfortable for passengers.

LU keep making excuses, but have done nothing about it.
 

edwin_m

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I worked at 55 Broadway right over the District Line tracks and never heard any noise, or got any vibrations, from the railway, but then went to work for Camden Council on Euston Road and, especially in the evenings when road traffic noise was less, was certainly aware of the Hamm and City under our building although it wasn't loud.
Around the turn of the century I often had to stay on business in various hotels around Euston. The sub-surface was definitely audible in the higher floors of the Premier Inn, not far down from Camden town hall. Tube rumble was also audible in the Ibis round the side of Euston station (now demolished) but I don't know if it was ground-borne or came up the ventilation shaft in the former station entrance opposite. It's probably louder on curves and further from stations, as well as at pointwork.
 
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