Slough to Eastbourne via Windsor

Status
Not open for further replies.

Slough

Member
Joined
13 Apr 2012
Messages
50
Hi me again
Looking at the national rail website for ticket prices .

It shows a 9.33 journey from slo to ebn via Windsor stations at £40.00

Yet a journey starting at Windsor and eton riverside is £40.40 going to Eastbourne .

The question , is the 9.33 from slough via Windsor a valid routing ? If so why is it 40p cheaper than buying it from Windsor riverside
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
7,689
Location
Rail replacement bus cab
Hi me again
Looking at the national rail website for ticket prices .

It shows a 9.33 journey from slo to ebn via Windsor stations at £40.00

Yet a journey starting at Windsor and eton riverside is £40.40 going to Eastbourne .

The question , is the 9.33 from slough via Windsor a valid routing ? If so why is it 40p cheaper than buying it from Windsor riverside

If the National Rail website says it's valid, then it's valid. Bear in mind they are different tickets with different routing validities and restrictions on them. Inevitably, there will be some anomalies here and there.
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,912
It is not the shortest route (or no more than 3 miles longer), he will not be travelling on a direct train and it is not a mapped route so I cannot see how it is a permitted route.

That said, if the OP bought a ticket according to an itinerary given and stuck rigorously to that itinerary then I expect the ticket to be honoured.
 

Slough

Member
Joined
13 Apr 2012
Messages
50
what would be considered proof and not get me a penalty fare going from slough to windsor and eton central and then windsor and eton riverside to clapham junction ? ( is the print out from national railways proof enough )

Ive never seen that route come up before on the national rail website , is it perhaps due to the olympics ?
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,912
When you buy a ticket from a website, you should be given an itinerary in your confirmation email. That would be your proof which you should ideally print out and bring with you.

Similarly if you buy from a ticket office, you can get them to print off an itinerary for you.

I would strongly recommend that if you take this course of action, you stick to the exact timings of trains recommended, except under permission from railway staff.

Some might disagree however I do not consider a print-out from National Rail Enquiries sufficient as they do not sell tickets themselves. They redirect you to the website of one of the TOCs (amongst others).
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,951
It is not the shortest route (or no more than 3 miles longer), he will not be travelling on a direct train and it is not a mapped route so I cannot see how it is a permitted route.

That said, if the OP bought a ticket according to an itinerary given and stuck rigorously to that itinerary then I expect the ticket to be honoured.

I believe that some engines erroneously calculate the shortest route using the long since discontinued Hayes & Harlington - Kensington Olympia link.

The actual shortest route should be:

Slough-Paddington 18 1/2 miles
(0 mile transfer)
Victoria-Clapham Junction 2 3/4 miles http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/May12/timetables/Table 177.pdf
Clapham Junction - Eastbourne (irrelevant)

Which is 21 1/4 miles

This route is:

Slough - Windsor & Eton Central 2 3/4 miles http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/May12/timetables/Table 119.pdf
(0 mile transfer)
Windsor & Eton Riverside - Clapham Junction 21 3/4 miles http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/May12/timetables/Table 149.pdf
Clapham Junction - Eastbourne (irrelevant)

Total is 24 1/2 miles

So the route via Windsor is 1/4 miles too long, but the precision of the figures is such that I guess you could argue that each distance could be up to 1/4 mile out (rounding error of 1/8 mile, twice), so with the given distances it is possible that the route via Windsor & Clapham Junction is within 3 miles of the total.

It's actually impossible to prove that it is NOT within 3 miles of the shortest route using official figures, so I guess they should give leeway. If they are using these same figures rounded to the nearest quarter internally, that might be why they suggest this route.
 

Parham Wood

Member
Joined
13 Jun 2011
Messages
212
Could someone please explain why if a bought a ticket that had the routing Slough - Windsor Stations - Eastbourne it could be considered not to be a permitted route when I used it? Even if it was 50 mile longer I have a ticket that has been sold by an authorised ticket agency effectively stating the route to use. Are you saying that if the agency has made an error then the ticket is not valid? How am I to know this? Does this mean I cannot be sure any ticket I buy is valid because there may have been an error in calculating it (assume I stick to the agreed times and routes)? If the railway refused to carry me for this reason would they be in breach of contract?:)

Basically I cannot see what all the fuss is about in this case or have I missed the point?
 

Robbies

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2009
Messages
2,031
Location
East Sussex
Will I presume the Itenary states that you get off a Train from Slough to Windsor Central and then Walk to Windsor and Eton Riverside to get a train to Clapham Junction, to then go to Eastbourbe as per the details below from http://www.nationalrail.co.uk:

09:33 Slough [SLO] 1 Windsor & Eton Central [WNC]
09:39 1 0h 06m nullSeating Class Information nullCycle policy
Calling points Arrives Departs

First Great Western service from Slough to Windsor & Eton Central
Walk 09:39 Windsor & Eton Central [WNC] Windsor & Eton Riverside [WNR]
09:53 0h 14m
.

Train 09:53 Windsor & Eton Riverside [WNR] 2 Clapham Junction [CLJ]
10:38 4 0h 45m nullSeating Class Information nullCycle policy
Calling points Arrives Departs
Datchet [DAT] 09:56 09:56
Sunnymeads [SNY] 09:59 09:59
Wraysbury [WRY] 10:02 10:02
Staines [SNS] 10:07 10:08
Ashford (Surrey) [AFS] 10:11 10:11
Feltham [FEL] 10:15 10:16
Whitton (London) [WTN] 10:20 10:20
Twickenham [TWI] 10:23 10:23
Richmond (London) [RMD] 10:27 10:28
Putney [PUT] 10:34 10:34

South West Trains service from Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo show calling points
Train 10:53 Clapham Junction [CLJ] 13 Eastbourne [EBN]
12:13 2 1h 20m
 

Slough

Member
Joined
13 Apr 2012
Messages
50
Could someone please explain why if a bought a ticket that had the routing Slough - Windsor Stations - Eastbourne it could be considered not to be a permitted route when I used it? Even if it was 50 mile longer I have a ticket that has been sold by an authorised ticket agency effectively stating the route to use. Are you saying that if the agency has made an error then the ticket is not valid? How am I to know this? Does this mean I cannot be sure any ticket I buy is valid because there may have been an error in calculating it (assume I stick to the agreed times and routes)? If the railway refused to carry me for this reason would they be in breach of contract?:)

Basically I cannot see what all the fuss is about in this case or have I missed the point?

The fuss really is only about the pricing . It's 40p cheaper to get the train from slough to Windsor cen then walk to Windsor riv then it is to go direct from Windsor river . How can they possibly justify that ?
 

bb21

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
4 Feb 2010
Messages
23,912
The actual shortest route should be:

Slough-Paddington 18 1/2 miles
(0 mile transfer)
Victoria-Clapham Junction 2 3/4 miles http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse documents/eNRT/May12/timetables/Table 177.pdf
Clapham Junction - Eastbourne (irrelevant)

Which is 21 1/4 miles

The shortest route will not be via Victoria. It will be via London Bridge.

Could someone please explain why if a bought a ticket that had the routing Slough - Windsor Stations - Eastbourne it could be considered not to be a permitted route when I used it? Even if it was 50 mile longer I have a ticket that has been sold by an authorised ticket agency effectively stating the route to use. Are you saying that if the agency has made an error then the ticket is not valid? How am I to know this? Does this mean I cannot be sure any ticket I buy is valid because there may have been an error in calculating it (assume I stick to the agreed times and routes)? If the railway refused to carry me for this reason would they be in breach of contract?:)

Basically I cannot see what all the fuss is about in this case or have I missed the point?

If you can prove that you were sold a ticket according to an itinerary then of course the itinerary should be honoured. I have explained this already.

The risk with travelling at another time is that some routes are not valid at all times. Without knowing why NRE showed via Windsor as a permitted route, I really would not want to offer any assurance that it would be fine travelling that route at times other than those suggested by the itinerary the ticket was bought with.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
52,712
Location
Yorkshire
The fuss really is only about the pricing
There is no fuss over pricing is there? We're trying to determine if it is valid based on the shortest route (plus up to 3 miles) rule.

It's 40p cheaper to get the train from slough to Windsor cen then walk to Windsor riv then it is to go direct from Windsor river . How can they possibly justify that ?
But who is 'they'?

It is not uncommon for a longer journey to be cheaper. This can happen for many reasons (if you find this interesting, then you will benefit from attending a Fares workshop), one example reason is that different operators price the flow. In this case FGW (from Slough) and SWT (from Riverside).

It can happen even when the same operator prices the ticket e.g. York to Weeton £11.30 CDR but if you go one more stop, York to Horsforth (via Weeton) £10.30 CDR.

For a really bonkers example, Whitby to Yarm is £16.80 return, go an extra stop to Northallerton it becomes £23.50, go one more stop to Thirsk it reduces to £21.70 but go yet another to York and the fare from Whitby is further reduced down to £12.40. Sherburn in Elmet is also £12.40, but if you go one more stop to Pontefract you'd be cheaper in a taxi as it jumps to £44.10.

There is no logic to rail fares, which are NOT priced by distance, and are based on market pricing and each flow is set by a particular TOC who has its own ideas on what the fare should be.
 

soil

Established Member
Joined
28 May 2012
Messages
1,951
The shortest route will not be via Victoria. It will be via London Bridge.

Surely on that basis the shortest route is:

Slough - Ealing Broadway
Ealing Broadway - Balham (zero mile tube transfer)

Balham - East Croydon - Eastbourne

?
 

RJ

Established Member
Joined
25 Jun 2005
Messages
7,689
Location
Rail replacement bus cab
The fuss really is only about the pricing . It's 40p cheaper to get the train from slough to Windsor cen then walk to Windsor riv then it is to go direct from Windsor river . How can they possibly justify that ?

Who is "they?" The two tickets are priced by different people. If you read the first reply to your original post, you may have some idea of why this is the case.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top