Small box in the corner of some mk1s?

[Cowley]

It’s about these little boxes:


Does anyone know what they are?
They seem to be original fittings on certain coaches.
Are they something to do with a PA system perhaps?
I (and a very good friend) would very much like to know, so any help would be much appreciated.

 

[big all]

Perhaps thermostat or temperature control, as sound needs to be at roof level for best distribution unimpeded by bodies, heads and head rests.

 

[hexagon789]

It’s about these little boxes:
View attachment 68681

Does anyone know what they are?
They seem to be original fittings on certain coaches.
Are they something to do with a PA system perhaps?
I (and a very good friend) would very much like to know, so any help would be much appreciated.

Can try asking on another forum if you like?

They look like speakers more than ventilation-related but I've never seen them before.

 

[delt1c]

They were speakers for train anouncments

 

[Cowley]

They were speakers for train anouncments

Thanks for that, do you remember them being used delt1c?

Can try asking on another forum if you like?

They look like speakers more than ventilation-related but I've never seen them before.

I did consider doing that myself but @delt1c seems pretty confident.

 

[randyrippley]

They were speakers for train anouncments

Really? I never saw one used as a speaker.
I always assumed they held thermostats for the ETH (the ETH switch is visible in the same photo)

 

[hexagon789]

I did consider doing that myself but @delt1c seems pretty confident.

My instinct was speakers at first glance, but having never seen them before...

 

[delt1c]

Only Mk1's I have been on when i experienced speakers used was dining cars when in Mk2 formations.

 

[edwin_m]

I remember being surprised in the early 70s when major express trains started to have announcements, which must have been with the arrival of Mk2s. Like delt1c I don't recall announcements on any Mk1 formation.

 

[Cowley]

So maybe as @randyrippley and @big all suggested - this is actually some kind of thermostat for the electric train heating?
It certainly doesn’t seem to fitted to all mk1s from what I can see.

 

[The Lad]

I think it is a speaker, some Mk1's were fitted with a system using the through lighting cables to convey speech along the train, punctuated by a loud click as the lights were turned on or off. There were two types of amplifier/decoder, one called 'ripper' I believe.

 

[hexagon789]

So maybe as @randyrippley and @big all suggested - this is actually some kind of thermostat for the electric train heating?
It certainly doesn’t seem to fitted to all mk1s from what I can see.

Can I ask where the photo is from or indeed what Mk1 it is?

 

[Cowley]

Can I ask where the photo is from or indeed what Mk1 it is?

Ah, now I’m not sure, it was on the East Lancs yesterday, but I can’t remember which one. It wasn’t the only one though, although we noticed later that one of the later refurbished (ex Anglia possibly) RMBs - 1871 didn’t have them.
The TSO that did was in excellent original looking condition though.

 

[Ash Bridge]

As Mr Cowley's partner in crime yesterday I think the vehicle in question was M1833.

 

[Cowley]

I knew I should have taken more notice of those carriage numbers...

 

[randyrippley]

Am I right in thinking those yellow melamine panels were only used in Mk1 opens intended for the Midland main line?

 

[hexagon789]

Am I right in thinking those yellow melamine panels were only used in Mk1 opens intended for the Midland main line?

Thought it was most of the later batches rather than specific to vehicles on one route.

 

[hexagon789]

Ah, now I’m not sure, it was on the East Lancs yesterday, but I can’t remember which one. It wasn’t the only one though, although we noticed later that one of the later refurbished (ex Anglia possibly) RMBs - 1871 didn’t have them.
The TSO that did was in excellent original looking condition though.

As Mr Cowley's partner in crime yesterday I think the vehicle in question was M1833.

Looking at my 1990 Platform 5 - 1833 is not listed as PA fitted while 1871 is. So it would seem it's not speakers!

 

[yorksrob]

Weren't loudspeakers usually fitted in the ceilings ? This was certainly the case with the SR EMU's (post refurb).

 

[Journeyman]

Weren't loudspeakers usually fitted in the ceilings ? This was certainly the case with the SR EMU's (post refurb).

PA in loco-hauled coaches was fitted over a much longer period and in varying styles, due to the level of refurbishment taking place. The SR came up with quite a neat solution that fitted everything into new lighting units, but I don't think those were ever fitted to loco-hauled stock.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Looking at my 1990 Platform 5 - 1833 is not listed as PA fitted while 1871 is. So it would seem it's not speakers!

Indeed, I'm not convinced these are part of the PA system either, I think it was as far back as the 70s that first got me wondering what these were, I think @randyrippley is much nearer the mark with his post above.

Weren't loudspeakers usually fitted in the ceilings ? This was certainly the case with the SR EMU's (post refurb).

That's certainly what I thought.

 

[hexagon789]

Indeed, I'm not convinced these are part of the PA system either, I think it was as far back as the 70s that first got me wondering what these were, I think @randyrippley is much nearer the mark with his post above.

I wonder of its the different heaters that SR Mk1s had - 750V ones?

The wiring is listed as 600amp for 1833 but only 400amp for 1871.

 

[randyrippley]

FWIW I have half a memory that these were fitted to some of the compartment stock on Waterloo-Exeter, but can't remember if it was the mk1 or mk2 fleets............both would have been ETH fitted though so some kind of thermal cutout device would be needed

 

[Ash Bridge]

I wonder of its the different heaters that SR Mk1s had - 750V ones?

The wiring is listed as 600amp for 1833 but only 400amp for 1871.

FWIW I have half a memory that these were fitted to some of the compartment stock on Waterloo-Exeter, but can't remember if it was the mk1 or mk2 fleets............both would have been ETH fitted though so some kind of thermal cutout device would be needed

Interesting comments, thanks both!

I think I mentioned to @Cowley at the time we were aboard 1833 that I thought I'd distant recollections of seeing these boxes fitted in other Mk1 variants not just RMBs e.g. SO & compartments back in the day but something is also telling me they were normally only to be seen in the later build batches, sadly memory is just a tad hazy now.

 

[hexagon789]

Interesting comments, thanks both!

I think I mentioned to @Cowley at the time we were aboard 1833 that I thought I'd distant recollections of seeing these boxes fitted in other Mk1 variants not just RMBs e.g. SO & compartments back in the day but something is also telling me they were normally only to be seen in the later build batches, sadly memory is just a tad hazy now.

Maybe it is a Southern Region thing then, given randyrippley's comment

It's an interesting and intriguing one regardless!

 

[47271]

I've spoken to my dad about this. He travelled a lot in Scotland in the 1980s and is sure that he saw these boxes in side corridor compartments of mk1s used between Aberdeen and Inverness in between 1980 and 1983. These trains were steam heated at the time, and definitely had no PA in operation, but he isn't sure where the stock was transferred from before it came to that route, he thinks maybe the Western Region?

He has a completely different theory - he always thought that the box was to house some sort of air freshener. I laughed when he said this, but I suppose in the circumstances of the low tech heating and no PA, then it's not that mad a suggestion?

 

[Ash Bridge]

I've spoken to my dad about this. He travelled a lot in Scotland in the 1980s and is sure that he saw these boxes in side corridor compartments of mk1s used between Aberdeen and Inverness in between 1980 and 1983. These trains were steam heated at the time, and definitely had no PA in operation, but he isn't sure where the stock was transferred from before it came to that route, he thinks maybe the Western Region?

He has a completely different theory - he always thought that the box was to house some sort of air freshener. I laughed when he said this, but I suppose in the circumstances of the low tech heating and no PA, then it's not that mad a suggestion?

Thanks for the input, and its good to hear fresh (haha) suggestions about this, and it does now at least confirm that they were fitted in compartments too, hopefully someone will eventually come along with the definitive answer to this

 

[randyrippley]

I've spoken to my dad about this. He travelled a lot in Scotland in the 1980s and is sure that he saw these boxes in side corridor compartments of mk1s used between Aberdeen and Inverness in between 1980 and 1983. These trains were steam heated at the time, and definitely had no PA in operation, but he isn't sure where the stock was transferred from before it came to that route, he thinks maybe the Western Region?

He has a completely different theory - he always thought that the box was to house some sort of air freshener. I laughed when he said this, but I suppose in the circumstances of the low tech heating and no PA, then it's not that mad a suggestion?

clutching at straws here, but the Waterloo-Exeter sets were WR based and were upgraded to mk2 in the early 80s.........mainly using coaches from the Glasgow-Edinburgh push-pulls. Was there a coach swap? Or is that too simplistic?

 

[Millisle]

A technically interested friend of mine told me many years ago that these boxes contained resistors for the light dimmers.

 

[satisnek]

I too had always thought that they were thermostats for the electric heating.