Smart card season ticketing for Northern, TPE and Merseyrail confirmed

[pemma]

The Department for Transport also today confirmed the award of £18.5 million from a £150 million government fund for TfN’s smart ticketing programme. TfN will use this to introduce paperless, smart card season tickets for Northern and TransPennine Express and Merseyrail passengers by the end of 2018.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/...y-to-get-new-transport-powers-from-government

The new Northern TVMs do have an ITSO button (currently disabled) and a device to scan smart readers. If Merseyrail TVMs handle Walrus cards then I imagine they can be easily upgraded. However, what about TPE TVMs?

 

[cuccir]

As always with these things, the devil is in the detail. Will need a way for this to be inter-available with other TOCs (Virgin East/West, CrossCountry, East Midlands Trains in particular, but also Arriva Wales, ScotRail, Grand Central, London Midland, Tyne and Wear Metro, Metrolink ideally) for it to be of any use in most parts of the network.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Isn't it confirmed for every TOC?

 

[mallard]

I assume that, just like all current "smart"-card schemes (with the exception of Oyster) passengers will be expected to pay the exact same fares for slower and/or less frequent services? (Due to being restricted to certain TOCs).

With the aforementioned exception of Oyster (which offers reduced fares and near-universal validity within London), smartcard ticketing is plain and simple scam. Pay the same, get less. Passengers lose out, as do "secondary" TOCs who don't operate the stations.

 

[Wallsendmag]

I assume that, just like all current "smart"-card schemes (with the exception of Oyster) passengers will be expected to pay the exact same fares for slower and/or less frequent services? (Due to being restricted to certain TOCs).

With the aforementioned exception of Oyster (which offers reduced fares and near-universal validity within London), smartcard ticketing is plain and simple scam. Pay the same, get less. Passengers lose out, as do "secondary" TOCs who don't operate the stations.

That's certainly not my impression, interoperability just the same as an orange ticket should be the aim (and hopefully the result)

 

[Clip]

With the aforementioned exception of Oyster (which offers reduced fares and near-universal validity within London), smartcard ticketing is plain and simple scam. Pay the same, get less. Passengers lose out, as do "secondary" TOCs who don't operate the stations.

How have you come to this conclusion that you pay the same and get less then?

 

[roversfan2001]

That's certainly not my impression, interoperability just the same as an orange ticket should be the aim (and hopefully the result)

I can only see that ever happening across the country upon re-nationalisation, if that ever happens.

 

[xotGD]

If northern could install a card reader as well as a new ticket machine at each and every station, they could also introduce a pay as you go smart card. That would be good for lots of passengers who travel regularly but not regularly enough to buy a season.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

And of course you can guarantee that none of the onboard or station based ticket inspection staff will be issued with readers for the cards which means that a paper counterpart will have to be carried to show to inspectors when asked.

 

[Merseysider]

And of course you can guarantee that none of the onboard or station based ticket inspection staff will be issued with readers for the cards which means that a paper counterpart will have to be carried to show to inspectors when asked.

Which entirely defeats the purpose of going 'smart' in the first place

 

[johntea]

EIGHTEEN AND A HALF MILLION QUID?!

Most of the technology is already in place at TVMs and barriers to read such cards! Payday for the lucky software developers presumably!

 

[Haywain]

EIGHTEEN AND A HALF MILLION QUID?!

It's more realistic than the £80 million that the rest of the industry has to share.

 

[mallard]

How have you come to this conclusion that you pay the same and get less then?

The fare is the same, but the smartcard is only valid on certain services. Pay the same, get a worse service.

 

[Clip]

The fare is the same, but the smartcard is only valid on certain services. Pay the same, get a worse service.

Source for that as I cant see anywhere in the story that states its only valid on certain services.

 

[IanXC]

Source for that as I cant see anywhere in the story that states its only valid on certain services.

There might not be a source either way to determine in this case yet.

The ScotRail smart card has exactly the issue described. You buy exactly the same 'Any Permitted' season ticket, but you cannot use it on any operator other than ScotRail.

 

[Clip]

So a unfactual statement then..

And as for the Scotrail situation then they really should force virgin and xc's hand and issue them with the required readers.

We always get told its not the medium but the ticket held that dictates validity

 

[Wallsendmag]

I can only see that ever happening across the country upon re-nationalisation, if that ever happens.

Remember a third party is paying for this not the TOCs

 

[Wallsendmag]

There might not be a source either way to determine in this case yet.

The ScotRail smart card has exactly the issue described. You buy exactly the same 'Any Permitted' season ticket, but you cannot use it on any operator other than ScotRail.

Your info is incorrect, although ScotRail seem slow to publicise the fact , season tickets are valid on VTEC services.

 

[Wallsendmag]

So a unfactual statement then..

And as for the Scotrail situation then they really should force virgin and xc's hand and issue them with the required readers.

We always get told its not the medium but the ticket held that dictates validity

See the above post

 

[Wallsendmag]

It's more realistic than the £80 million that the rest of the industry has to share.

I've a horrible feeling that this is part of that £55m or so that is actually going to pay for the kit.

 

[Clip]

See the above post

Thankyou

 

[IanXC]

Your info is incorrect, although ScotRail seem slow to publicise the fact , season tickets are valid on VTEC services.

Tbh I have no particular experience of this one, just recalling another thread where someone had mentioned it, and anecdotal stories from Scottish friends.

I'm glad the problem (no longer?) applies on VTEC, but can the same be said for the other operators in Scotland?

Either way I suspect there is a distinct risk of these problems, considering the sheer number of operators that will need to accept these smartcards...

Virgin Trains East Coast
Virgin Trains West Coast
Arriva Trains Wales
CrossCountry
Grand Central
Hull Trains
Tyne and Wear Metro (Sunderland-Newcastle)
East Midlands Trains
London Midland

 

[Wallsendmag]

Tbh I have no particular experience of this one, just recalling another thread where someone had mentioned it, and anecdotal stories from Scottish friends.

I'm glad the problem (no longer?) applies on VTEC, but can the same be said for the other operators in Scotland?

Either way I suspect there is a distinct risk of these problems, considering the sheer number of operators that will need to accept these smartcards...

Virgin Trains East Coast
Virgin Trains West Coast
Arriva Trains Wales
CrossCountry
Grand Central
Hull Trains
Tyne and Wear Metro (Sunderland-Newcastle)
East Midlands Trains
London Midland

VTEC are in a good position as their onboard TIS can read both GTR and ScotRail smartcards so should be ready to handle anything thrown at it. As Northern are part of Arriva, CrossCountry Arriva Trains Wales and Grand Central should be OK. Hull Trains like Transpennine are First so that just leaves London Midland, EMT and T&W Metro.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

VTEC are in a good position as their onboard TIS can read both GTR and ScotRail smartcards so should be ready to handle anything thrown at it. As Northern are part of Arriva, CrossCountry Arriva Trains Wales and Grand Central should be OK. Hull Trains like Transpennine are First so that just leaves London Midland, EMT and T&W Metro.

VTWC? I think they have clauses in the 2014 franchise agreement to cooperate with RDG ITSO smartcard schemes.
ATW will not have any provision for smartcards in its 2003 franchise agreement, and will be reluctant to spend any money on this in the last year of their franchise.

 

[Wallsendmag]

It won't be ATW money being spent
http://www.railtechnologymagazine.c...art-ticketing-roll-out-by-2018-with-80m-boost