"Smart" fare dodgers - even smarter guard !

[Mintona]

If someone moves seat I will almost certainly ask for their ticket again if I have already seen it. Like flamingo, I tend to remember patterns rather than specific people. Unless they have different hair or different clothes or something.

 

[trainophile]

I'm always amazed at the photographic memories most ticket inspectors seem to have. I have noticed them giving me a "double take" on a few occasions, when I've moved to a different seat. Or even in the same seat if I've taken my coat off!

 

[HugePilchard]

A question for the guards who are reading this: If someone's trying to get out of getting their ticket checked, do they tend to act in a certain way?

Thinking about what I'm like on a train, when the guard comes through for subsequent ticket checks after my ticket has been checked, I'll tend to look up as they come past, but then go back to whatever I was doing immediately. Do fare dodgers avoid looking up at all, in the hope that they'll not attract attention?

 

[1V53]

A question for the guards who are reading this: If someone's trying to get out of getting their ticket checked, do they tend to act in a certain way?

Thinking about what I'm like on a train, when the guard comes through for subsequent ticket checks after my ticket has been checked, I'll tend to look up as they come past, but then go back to whatever I was doing immediately. Do fare dodgers avoid looking up at all, in the hope that they'll not attract attention?

Varies really. You can take over a train and do a full ticket check and get people ignoring you, and have to stand by them staring at them for them to say "oh, you've seen mine". "that was my colleague, who is 20 years younger than me and female, madam"

There is some classic behaviour though. Getting on and going straight to sleep, or going straight to the toilet are two, but there are kids who pretend to be asleep despite having tickets, and genuine customers who were desperate for the loo!

Those who push past as you are checking, but again not always do they not have tickets.

The old pocket shuffle is another - "I've got one honest" as they check every pocket then look shocked and "damn I must have lost it" but again they sometimes do that and DO have one.

The classic that usually gives the fare dodger away is the calm "hi... Now what it is, is.......". Cue intake of breath on my part and slowly glazing over!

 

[Smethwickian]

Or how about 2 women going into the same toilet together, same effect as 2 men going into the same toilet together - not right.

Unless one happened to be a carer for the other of course.

Only just noticed that comment, and can't say I'm terribly impressed.

You are welcome to hold the opinion that having more than one person (of both or either gender) at a time up to hanky-panky in a public train toilet is not acceptable.

But your implication that it is only (or somehow more) wrong when a same-sex couple is involved is unnecessary and discriminatory.

 

[trainophile]

When the staff changeover part way through a journey, e.g. at Shrewsbury on the Cardiff to Holyhead route, the new inspector will usually ask for "tickets from Shrewsbury please". As I've been on since Hereford I just ignore him/her, but what's to stop people who HAVE only just got on doing the same, hoping it will be assumed that they also boarded further back down the line?

As regards two people using a toilet at the same time, at those stations with self-cleaning between each use toilets (e.g. LPY), if I am travelling with my husband and only have 7 or 9 mins connection time and about 500 yards between arrival and departure platforms, it would make sense for us both to go in together should the need arise. Especially when about to board a Merseyrail train without facilities. I know we might get funny looks from anyone around, but better than missing the train!

Edited to add that by the same reasoning I could go into the loo with my sister. Easy enough to "look the other way" at the appropriate time!

 

[island]

The old pocket shuffle is another - "I've got one honest" as they check every pocket then look shocked and "damn I must have lost it" but again they sometimes do that and DO have one.

I remember reading about someone who had a pocketful of old period returns and pulled them out when checked, picking one and handing it over to the guard, who proceeded to swipe it through his Avantix, say "that went through a barrier at Paddington 10 days ago", tear it up, and ask for another one. Repeat several times!

 

[Flamingo]

I remember reading about someone who had a pocketful of old period returns and pulled them out when checked, picking one and handing it over to the guard, who proceeded to swipe it through his Avantix, say "that went through a barrier at Paddington 10 days ago", tear it up, and ask for another one. Repeat several times!

Been there, done that

A question for the guards who are reading this: If someone's trying to get out of getting their ticket checked, do they tend to act in a certain way?

As regards spotting the fare-dodgers that sit there hoping I'll walk past, it's easy - I can smell their fear

 

[Wyvern]

I'm always amazed at the photographic memories most ticket inspectors seem to have.

When ever the guard comes down the train I am thinking of a study I read about in uni about the memory skills of cocktail waitresses in New York, who have to remember the drinks orders of maybe a dozen or more men at a table and heaven help her if she gets one wrong.

Remembering drink orders: The memory skills of cocktail waitresses.

One of the reasons I didnt go bus driving is that I could never remember all the fares along a given route. :cry:

 

[island]

I remember reading about someone who had a pocketful of old period returns and pulled them out when checked, picking one and handing it over to the guard, who proceeded to swipe it through his Avantix, say "that went through a barrier at Paddington 10 days ago", tear it up, and ask for another one. Repeat several times!

Been there, done that

If someone is going to be naughty enough to try to use an SOR as a monthly ticket, they could at least make the effort to buy a short-distance season to get through the barrier, before showing the SOR to the guard (and quite a lot of guards seem not to bother to mark tickets any more, or if they do, they just scribble on them, which allows customers to suggest that the ticket was checked earlier/they had a break of journey).

 

[pemma]

which allows customers to suggest that the ticket was checked earlier/they had a break of journey).

Northern/TPE/ATW/EMT (ex-CT)/LM (ex-CT) guards all tend to either date stamp or scribble the date on the return parts of tickets where the return part is valid for a month. However, it would usually mean if someone doesn't complete the return part of their journey in one day they get accused of trying to reuse the ticket.

 

[WestCoast]

One of the reasons I didnt go bus driving is that I could never remember all the fares along a given route. :cry:

Bus drivers certainly don't do that nowadays - the machine holds all that info.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Northern/TPE/ATW/EMT (ex-CT)/LM (ex-CT) guards all tend to either date stamp or scribble the date on the return parts of tickets where the return part is valid for a month. However, it would usually mean if someone doesn't complete the return part of their journey in one day they get accused of trying to reuse the ticket.

I think the most effective stamps are the ones with Virgin which have a route code (so the train is known), and date. Little biro marks don't really say much.

 

[island]

FGW has those too, but not all guards use them. And those who do may not set the right date/headcode.

 

[TackerUK]

Wife and i went to Devon last sat to do some train photography. Went to Taunton, Exeter, Dawlish, Warren, Newton Abbot and back to Bristol. Six trains and not once got ask for are Tickets

 

[All Line Rover]

I think the most effective stamps are the ones with Virgin which have a route code (so the train is known), and date. Little biro marks don't really say much.

The Virgin ones rub off very easily, although they seem to indent the ticket slightly so that something is always visible.

 

[WestCoast]

Been there, done that

As regards spotting the fare-dodgers that sit there hoping I'll walk past, it's easy - I can smell their fear

You are obviously very good at your job, especially with the art of passenger behaviour observation. Intercity operators do seem to be more thorough at this.

Most guards are rather good at his however to be truthful there is a minority who appear not to be paying enough attention. I've been on a number of trains (certain TOCs in particular) where the guard rushes down the train and if I don't flag him/her down, my ticket doesn't get inspected. I was on one train where a lady was sitting with money in hand (unstaffed station) looking at the guard and he sailed past her. She then had to find him (she was honest!).

Some guards barely glance at the ticket - I don't know how they read it! Again, this occurs more on regional services.

 

[Flamingo]

Thanks, but I'm not that good. I just walk up and down the train a lot.

 

[WestCoast]

Thanks, but I'm not that good. I just walk up and down the train a lot.

No, I'm serious, all this about patterns in the coaches e.t.c seems very logical in terms of remembering who has been checked. From, what I've seen, some other guards do struggle with that (or aren't as bothered about it) and end up just relying on honesty. Like I said, I've had to hail a guard like a bus a few times because they run down too fast. Patrolling the train is always good.

 

[Flamingo]

It's always good to give the uniform an airing.

 

[Deerfold]

No, I'm serious, all this about patterns in the coaches e.t.c seems very logical in terms of remembering who has been checked. From, what I've seen, some other guards do struggle with that (or aren't as bothered about it) and end up just relying on honesty. Like I said, I've had to hail a guard like a bus a few times because they run down too fast. Patrolling the train is always good.

I had a mental image of a delay and then three guards turning up at once then...

 

[PinzaC55]

When I was working a 158 I would routinely press the toilet open button as I went past because some of them will hide in the toilet but not lock it so that the Occupied sign doesn't light up.
On one occasion the door opened to reveal a foreign woman in her fifties with her pants down and a huge flabby white bum.I apologised but still checked her ticket once she had her kit back on.

 

[BestWestern]

When I was working a 158 I would routinely press the toilet open button as I went past because some of them will hide in the toilet but not lock it so that the Occupied sign doesn't light up.
On one occasion the door opened to reveal a foreign woman in her fifties with her pants down and a huge flabby white bum.I apologised but still checked her ticket once she had her kit back on.

I think we've all done that LOL! Opened the door on somebody who doesn't lock I mean, not actually been the 'victim'!

Best occurence I ever saw of this was as a passenger many years back on a Voyager. Vestibule was packed solid with standees - as usual - and along came an intended toilet user, hit the button, and the big door slowly rolled back, to reveal a horrified 'rabbit in headlights' face from a woman midway through her lav duties... It must be awful if you're the poor sod on the bog, but it's amusing if you're just an observer

I usually manage to resist the urge to laugh when I do it to someone on my train, though

As for dodgers on 158s, it never ceases to amaze me how they always choose the 'big' disabled toilet, with it's easily-isolated sliding door, rather than the 'small' toilet with the inward-opening hinged door which they could easily block if they really wanted to. It's a satisfying feeling when you isolate the air and slide the door open to reveal a couple of boneheads hiding in there!

 

[Mintona]

It's always good to give the uniform an airing.

The Borat one?

 

[bb21]

I think we've all done that LOL! Opened the door on somebody who doesn't lock I mean, not actually been the 'victim'!

Best occurence I ever saw of this was as a passenger many years back on a Voyager. Vestibule was packed solid with standees - as usual - and along came an intended toilet user, hit the button, and the big door slowly rolled back, to reveal a horrified 'rabbit in headlights' face from a woman midway through her lav duties... It must be awful if you're the poor sod on the bog, but it's amusing if you're just an observer

I usually manage to resist the urge to laugh when I do it to someone on my train, though

As for dodgers on 158s, it never ceases to amaze me how they always choose the 'big' disabled toilet, with it's easily-isolated sliding door, rather than the 'small' toilet with the inward-opening hinged door which they could easily block if they really wanted to. It's a satisfying feeling when you isolate the air and slide the door open to reveal a couple of boneheads hiding in there!

Thanks for the tips

 

[DJ_K666]

While BCG injections are given to most children now, those who weren't given it at birth get given it at a later stage, usually as a teenager.

Also international students get given any injections they've not been given in their home country which are considered advisory in the UK in the first couple of months after coming over, so usually when they are around 19 years old.

I never had it as my skin test came up. Apparently i had some kind if TB exposure and have an immunity so no scar. I reckon I just got lucky.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You are obviously very good at your job, especially with the art of passenger behaviour observation. Intercity operators do seem to be more thorough at this.

Most guards are rather good at his however to be truthful there is a minority who appear not to be paying enough attention. I've been on a number of trains (certain TOCs in particular) where the guard rushes down the train and if I don't flag him/her down, my ticket doesn't get inspected. I was on one train where a lady was sitting with money in hand (unstaffed station) looking at the guard and he sailed past her. She then had to find him (she was honest!).

Some guards barely glance at the ticket - I don't know how they read it! Again, this occurs more on regional services.

I have to admit when I'm at work and a passenger gets on my bus I quite often don;t look hard at their ticket. I look at date and price, as that way I can tell the validity at a glance. You can usually tell who is trying to hide by their body language and how they have their thumb over the date..

Edit: For bus fare discussion click on this thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47448