Smartcards

[planetf1]

My local station (chandler's ford) has had a yellow card reader for years. However the station is not shown by SWR as being valid for smartcards.

I asked in the ticket office last weekend and was told they thought the machines were going to be activated in the next few days.

Does anyone know if this is the case?
Additionally I know that 'southern' also offer smart cards but their coverage maps tend to indicate that they are not valid outside their region. Is this true? Or could I travel CFR-brighton using a smartcard (regular return)
Finally I assume the old 'SWT' smartcard still works fine? (I also have 'solent go')

Personally I would find mobile tickets or bank contactless / apple nfc so much easier!

 

[CyrusWuff]

SWR have a new Smartcard map with additional stations activated as of today.

Said map can be downloaded in PDF form from https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/smart-ticketing/touch-smartcard/smartcard-map

 

[DelW]

Still useless for non-commuters though, as it's available for seasons and carnets only.
[Edit] Apparently not so, see later posts.

 

[planetf1]

Ah thanks! I see CFR is indeed now included which is progress. I'll aim to try and use the card for future journeys

Now if only there was an iOS app that worked as a smartcard... ie apple nfc

 

[swt_passenger]

Still useless for non-commuters though, as it's available for seasons and carnets only.

I don’t believe that’s right, and the web page here does go on to mention daily tickets even though the heading area implies it’s about seasons:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/smart-ticketing/touch-smartcard
Once you have the card you can buy normal tickets, and that’s been the case for a while. They were initially promoted as seasons only on a subset of routes, but that didn’t last long.

 

[planetf1]

Oh I thought regular tickets could be loaded on it?

I checked the site, and was able to select 'smartcard sale' under 'vouchers' when purchasing (so obvious!)
This then took me to a screen which offered 'eticket' or 'collect' (no smartcard?). The link to eticket returns a 404
I'd love an eticket application even more than a smartcard!

Continuing if you do select eticket - since I don't have the app yet the confirmation screen tell me
Tickets will be sent to PSEUDO_DEVICE

Hopefully it will cost a pseudo price too!



Sigh. The mess continues (it didn't start well with the poorly formatted initial web page)

 

[DelW]

I don’t believe that’s right, and the web page here does go on to mention daily tickets even though the heading area implies it’s about seasons:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/smart-ticketing/touch-smartcard
Once you have the card you can buy normal tickets, and that’s been the case for a while. They were initially promoted as seasons only on a subset of routes, but that didn’t last long.

I did see the reference to "Daily, Weekly, Monthly, and Annual season tickets" on the page you linked to, but if you go through to the Smart Ticketing web-page:
https://www.southwesternrailway.com/train-tickets/smart-ticketing
"Daily" has disappeared and it just says "With a range of products now available on the Touch Smartcard from weekly, monthly and annual season tickets, Auto Renewal Season Tickets where if you buy 11 monthly season tickets you get a 12th for free, to the Carnet product." So not very clear then, at least to me.

IIRC the old SWT card did allow one-off journeys, but you had to either buy from a TVM (in which case there's little point) or by ringing their call centre at least two hours before travelling. Neither of those options tempted me.

[Edit] Looking again I think the page I quoted is actually higher up in the hierarchy, somewhere in the website I'd got lost . But the 4-step "How to get your smartcard" refers only to season tickets (steps 2 and 4, buying and loading tickets).

 

[swt_passenger]

There’s plenty of correspondence on SWR’s online forum about glitches in purchasing day tickets on “touch”, but the replies suggest the feature is definitely supposed to be working.

 

[DelW]

There’s plenty of correspondence on SWR’s online forum about glitches in purchasing day tickets on “touch”, but the replies suggest the feature is definitely supposed to be working.

OK, thanks, I'll put that down to some unclear information on the web-site, then, rather than the single-use option not being available. Will amend my original post in case I mislead anybody.

 

[swt_passenger]

OK, thanks, I'll put that down to some unclear information on the web-site, then, rather than the single-use option not being available. Will amend my original post in case I mislead anybody.

I must admit, (writing as someone who doesn’t need a season), there’s nothing so far suggesting I should rush to get a smart card. For instance the likelihood of SN, XC or GWR arguing about validity on journeys I regularly make doesn’t help.

 

[DelW]

I have to say that I think the whole ITSO card implementation on the railways is hopeless beyond belief. It seems that each TOC has been allowed to introduce its own mutually-incompatible card system that is valid only on its own trains. There should have been a national system valid across all operators or there is little point trying to extend it beyond season ticket holders only. Anyone would think that DfT was led by a useless political nonentity more interested in obsessing about Brexit and knifing his colleagues in the back than in doing his job. Though of course the origins of this policy (assuming it was a policy, not just something that happened while no-one was paying attention) go back much further than the present incumbent or administration. Sadly no one party has a monopoly on ministerial incompetence.

 

[Wallsendmag]

No the only incompatable systems are GTR and ScotRail

 

[Joe Paxton]

No the only incompatable systems are GTR and ScotRail

How are they incompatible (if that can be explained in layman's terms), and can they be made to be compatible?

 

[Wallsendmag]

They currently use a different HOPs (back office system) but I believe GTR will be changing their HOPS next year.

 

[alistairlees]

I have to say that I think the whole ITSO card implementation on the railways is hopeless beyond belief. It seems that each TOC has been allowed to introduce its own mutually-incompatible card system that is valid only on its own trains. There should have been a national system valid across all operators or there is little point trying to extend it beyond season ticket holders only. Anyone would think that DfT was led by a useless political nonentity more interested in obsessing about Brexit and knifing his colleagues in the back than in doing his job. Though of course the origins of this policy (assuming it was a policy, not just something that happened while no-one was paying attention) go back much further than the present incumbent or administration. Sadly no one party has a monopoly on ministerial incompetence.

This post is completely inaccurate. An interoperable smartcard system is being rolled out. As is an interoperable barcode ticket system. It just takes a bit of time to get there. Still, don't let facts get in the way!

 

[DelW]

This post is completely inaccurate. An interoperable smartcard system is being rolled out. As is an interoperable barcode ticket system. It just takes a bit of time to get there. Still, don't let facts get in the way!

Not being a privileged insider, as you may be, I can only go on publicly available information ... which is almost completely unavailable to ordinary passengers. Many TOC websites say little enough about their own smartcards validity on their own trains, and nothing about validity on other operators services, or other cards on their services. There is nothing I've found on inter-availability except a Wikipedia page (which is of course only as reliable as the people putting information on it) which lists a wide variety of card type names, many with very little validity except as season tickets. Where is the guidance for passengers to tell them about using smart cards across different operators?

A few weeks ago I travelled from mid Wales to Surrey using TfW, Virgin, TfL and SWR. that's easily done using ONE paper ticket. When will that be possible using a smart card? And will I be able to be sure that I don't meet a guard or RPI who will refuse to accept another operator's card and insist I buy a full price paper ticket to continue my journey?

My local station (SWR) has had card readers installed for probably ten years or more (from memory so may be a bit out either way), so the system which is "being rolled out" has been a very long time coming. But of course, everyone on "the inside" knows about all these wonderful new developments, so you can enjoy being smug and taking a pop at those ignorant ordinary passengers who haven't been told "the facts" yet.

 

[bubieyehyeh]

Smart ticketing information on southern is very confusing also.

The new southern key map seem to be misleading, it doesn't mention if you can use other ToCs (but shows logo for four GTR brands at the bottom). The FAQ website says you can get railcard discounts, but only on southern network, so a further restriction to a subset of the ToC trains?

Also map no longer explains where you can collect tickets - this used to be outside london only - has this changed can you now collect tickets in London area?

The southern key map has recently updated implying shepherds bush is a full part of the smart network (no longer limited to travelcards). However that does not seem to be the case since you can't seem to buy a smart ticket on southern's own website unless it is a season ticket.

Not sure if the map is deliberately confusing or things are about to change, and map has been changed too early.

 

[Wallsendmag]

http://smartticketing.nationalrail.co.uk/index2.html

 

[[.n]]

This post is completely inaccurate. An interoperable smartcard system is being rolled out. As is an interoperable barcode ticket system. It just takes a bit of time to get there. Still, don't let facts get in the way!

Is this the system that has been rolled out for years and still not got there

 

[Wallsendmag]

Is this the system that has been rolled out for years and still not got there

No the launch was 18th December

 

[mattdickinson]

Chiltern have launched their smartcard. No details of routes or interavailability though.

 

[mattdickinson]

Chiltern have launched their smartcard. No details of routes or interavailability though.

Cross Country have as well with a fairly random list of flows.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Has anyone looked at the link I've posted? All TOCs are launching ITSO schemes. LNER have made them available between Grantham and Northallerton and all intermediate points. LNER aren't retailing journeys to ITSO so you'll need another TOCs card and you'll need to book on someone elses website.

 

[Llanigraham]

http://smartticketing.nationalrail.co.uk/index2.html

That doesn't appear to be a "Smartcard" just a ticket loaded onto a mobile device

Has anyone looked at the link I've posted? All TOCs are launching ITSO schemes. LNER have made them available between Grantham and Northallerton and all intermediate points. LNER aren't retailing journeys to ITSO so you'll need another TOCs card and you'll need to book on someone elses website.

Yes I did read it all.

I see no reference to "All TOCs are launching ITSO schemes" and certainly no reference to a date of such.

What I do see is a system where something is downloaded as a app on presumably a mobile phone and possibly a "smart card" at some future time.

As a test I've tried to book tickets from my local station to Euston, since I will be doing that journey in January, and it doesn't allow me to do so.

 

[mattdickinson]

Has anyone looked at the link I've posted? All TOCs are launching ITSO schemes. LNER have made them available between Grantham and Northallerton and all intermediate points. LNER aren't retailing journeys to ITSO so you'll need another TOCs card and you'll need to book on someone elses website.

That website has no specific deals, just links to TOC home pages .

(Are Virgin Trains or Caledonian Sleeper launching Smart cards?. I can't see anything so far)

 

[bubieyehyeh]

The website doesn't say anything about interoperability unless I missed it.

 

[CyrusWuff]

The website doesn't say anything about interoperability unless I missed it.

My understanding is that any Smartcard sporting the "Smart Ticketing on National Rail" logo (the orange circle with three white lines in it) will accept products from any operator when purchased through a TVM, but you'll only be able to manage it through an account on the original retailer's site.

Card numbers are in four parts: 633597 identifies it as being an ITSO card, the next four digits identify the issuer, then there's a seven digit card number and finally a check digit.

In terms of routes, looking at CrossCountry's list of collection locations, the one thing the Chiltern stations on there (Banbury, High Wycombe, Leamington Spa and Oxford Parkway) have in common is that they've got ticket barriers, so I'd hazard a guess that the initial rollout for Chiltern is Seasons (including Travelcard Seasons) for gated stations only (though it isn't explicitly stated on their Smartcard page), with expansion to other stations to come in a later phase.

 

[Wallsendmag]

As we share a project manager I can confirm VTWC are part of the Smartcard scheme. There are two main projects underway at the moment barcodes (m tickets e tickets and self print) and ITSO. Together they form Smart Ticketing. The end of orange card for seasons is in sight.

 

[alistairlees]

Not being a privileged insider, as you may be, I can only go on publicly available information ... which is almost completely unavailable to ordinary passengers. Many TOC websites say little enough about their own smartcards validity on their own trains, and nothing about validity on other operators services, or other cards on their services. There is nothing I've found on inter-availability except a Wikipedia page (which is of course only as reliable as the people putting information on it) which lists a wide variety of card type names, many with very little validity except as season tickets. Where is the guidance for passengers to tell them about using smart cards across different operators?

That's because it isn't fully rolled out yet. I didn't say it was complete. First deadlines were the end of last week, with much new functionality rolled out - for example this for Southeastern. There are similar things happening on (almost) all TOCs, with more functionality to come. And interoperability is part of all this - you will be able to buy products from any retailer for travel on any other retailer, and will only need one smartcard (it might not all happen immediately but that is the direction of travel).

A few weeks ago I travelled from mid Wales to Surrey using TfW, Virgin, TfL and SWR. that's easily done using ONE paper ticket. When will that be possible using a smart card? And will I be able to be sure that I don't meet a guard or RPI who will refuse to accept another operator's card and insist I buy a full price paper ticket to continue my journey?

Yes, it will be possible. Yes, guards and RPIs will accept your travel as you will have a valid ticket (on your smartcard). For journeys that don't involve crossing London you will also be able to have an eTicket (no need for app or smartcard). Guards and RPIs can read those too!

My local station (SWR) has had card readers installed for probably ten years or more (from memory so may be a bit out either way), so the system which is "being rolled out" has been a very long time coming. But of course, everyone on "the inside" knows about all these wonderful new developments, so you can enjoy being smug and taking a pop at those ignorant ordinary passengers who haven't been told "the facts" yet.

You haven't been told the facts because it hasn't (or at least hadn't, at the time of the post) been launched yet. The main change that is coming now is that smartcard schemes are interoperable (at long last) and cover (almost) all ticket types.

 

[alistairlees]

That website has no specific deals, just links to TOC home pages .

(Are Virgin Trains or Caledonian Sleeper launching Smart cards?. I can't see anything so far)

Not on Caledonian Sleeper.