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Smartcards

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themeone

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I have two "Key" smartcards, one issued by Southern, the other by Bluestar bus. I just tried to register both on SWR online and in both cases it told me the ISRN is incorrect. Google tells me this merely means the number on the front of the card, so clearly SWR is currently still only allowing passengers to register its own card. Will this change soon?
 

themeone

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I also just tried to book a journey starting outside Southern's area, on Southern's website, where my Southern key is registered. It didn't want to know, said I could only have a paper ticket.
 

Wallsendmag

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I have two "Key" smartcards, one issued by Southern, the other by Bluestar bus. I just tried to register both on SWR online and in both cases it told me the ISRN is incorrect. Google tells me this merely means the number on the front of the card, so clearly SWR is currently still only allowing passengers to register its own card. Will this change soon?

As far as I know you'll need to have a card that matches the web supplier

I also just tried to book a journey starting outside Southern's area, on Southern's website, where my Southern key is registered. It didn't want to know, said I could only have a paper ticket.

Try a Doncaster to York season ticket
 

themeone

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For the passenger, Smartcards will have little appeal until you can use one smartcard for everything.
 

Belperpete

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It would appear that currently the only way of knowing if a smart ticket is available for a particular journey is to try booking that particular journey through various ticket-sellers' web-sites. One TOC may offer that journey with a smart ticket option, whereas another may not. It does all appear very unpredictable at present.
 

Llanigraham

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If the flow is enabled in RCS then any site offering Smartcard as a fulfilment method should be able to sell them
And others, including me, have said that they have been unable to find these "tickets" for their journeys.
Are you able to supply a full and complete list of where they are available?
 
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Bungle965

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All of LNERs season tickets between Grantham and Northallerton and all intermediate flows on the main line are enabled
Attempted it on TPE's Mixing Deck, selected the option for "Only fares that can be loaded onto an ITSO SmartCard".
For this process I attempted to buy a 1st class annual season between Grantham and Northallerton, went through the stages fine until I got to the delivery options where it came up with this.
No delivery options are available for your selected tickets. The minimum length of time to purchase your ticket before your selected service departs is as follows:

Mobile ticket 10 mins, Collect from station 60 mins, Self-print 120 mins, Special delivery 1 day (if ordered before 17:00), First class post 5 days (if ordered by 18:00).

Please note, mobile tickets are not available on all ticket types or journeys.
Sam
 

AY1975

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Note that you can use ScotRail smartcards on SPT Subway and vice versa.

I thought when SPT first launched the "Bramble" smartcard system on the Subway in 2013, they wanted eventually to roll out the system across all modes - rail, bus and ferries. So far there doesn't seem to have been any progress on getting them accepted on buses and ferries.

Also, the SPT website appears to indicate that the "ZoneCard", which is valid for all modes (Subway, rail, most buses and some ferries), can be issued as a smartcard. It says "To make your ZoneCard ‘Smart’, bring your existing photo ID to any Subway ticket office for validation."
 
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Transport for Wales Android app has recently got a screen for scanning a smart card so I assume they're launching theirs soon. You can access this screens by clicking a small card icon on the 'Home' screen of the app. Havent managed to find any information about it online though.

View media item 3312
 

jon0844

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This post is completely inaccurate. An interoperable smartcard system is being rolled out. As is an interoperable barcode ticket system. It just takes a bit of time to get there. Still, don't let facts get in the way!

The fact it is still being rolled out and it requires changes in the coming year or two to offer true interoperability suggests the poster above is right in saying the roll out has been bad. I agree too, and have ranted about it for years (that's how long it has been a disjointed mess).

The DfT should have overseen a national introduction from day one with RDG, then ATOC, taking the lead with individual TOCs. Even if every TOC introduced at a different time, they'd all work exactly the same from day one with minimal teething problems as most issues would have been dealt with early on.

Of course things will be right in the end but we've been talking about ITSO for around ten years now.
 

Wallsendmag

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The fact it is still being rolled out and it requires changes in the coming year or two to offer true interoperability suggests the poster above is right in saying the roll out has been bad. I agree too, and have ranted about it for years (that's how long it has been a disjointed mess).

The DfT should have overseen a national introduction from day one with RDG, then ATOC, taking the lead with individual TOCs. Even if every TOC introduced at a different time, they'd all work exactly the same from day one with minimal teething problems as most issues would have been dealt with early on.

Of course things will be right in the end but we've been talking about ITSO for around ten years now.
DfT have overseen the implementation with RDG you clearly have no idea of the complexity of the proposition.
 

jon0844

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DfT have overseen the implementation with RDG you clearly have no idea of the complexity of the proposition.

I am sure they've been watching over, given they specified the need for smartcards in each new franchise/contract, but they forgot to ensure every single TOC was working on an interoperable solution from day one. That it will all come together one day is not good enough, and there's no way users should have had to wait around a decade for the introduction of a fully operational nationwide system.

It's good that some TOCs have got it working better than others, but they've had to work on their implementation to comply with requirements. I assume the need to have something working nationwide was not in their franchise agreements and was planned for later. Now if the DfT said they intended to have a system working by, say, 2019, then why didn't they?

All we have are a mix of supposedly standard systems that don't work. You can be on Great Northern with KeyGo but not use it to Cambridge, as it's a Greater Anglia station. I had managed to load a single point-to-point ticket on my Key card almost by accident years ago, then the facility was removed at launch so it was only for season tickets. Now it's back, but how long did that take?

It really is not good enough. Of course it's complex, but look at the time that has elapsed. The fact the DfT waited for new franchises to start is a good reason for the delay. Other things like GTR not being able to put carnet tickets onto the Key, despite the huge level of fraud, because it's not a contract requirement (and thus the DfT won't fund) are other silly things that hold things back.

I remember my trials with Barclaycard/Nokia/O2 with contactless cards for payments and being a user in the trial area of London well over ten years ago now. Oyster has been with us for many years and indeed is now in the process of being upgraded (TfL has been equally slow) so I don't buy the excuse that complexity has resulted in such a long delay.

When Stagecoach introduced their smartcard and I got one to have my Gold Card put on it, they had a tiny team. When I got my card, I realised they couldn't issue it with a Gold Record card so had to switch back to paper - as I lost all the Gold Card benefits. I am sure each TOC has scarce resources, and in many cases are duplicating development unnecessarily than if there was one single organisation working on it.
 

Wallsendmag

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No you don't understand, they (DfT) haven't been keeping an overview they have been very actively driving and funding the national implementation of ITSO across all TOCs .Don't moan about something that you clearly don't know the full facts about. The delay is due to the small roll out team having to cope with all franchises coming on stream through one point in 12 months.
 

Denco3

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My understanding is that any Smartcard sporting the "Smart Ticketing on National Rail" logo (the orange circle with three white lines in it) will accept products from any operator when purchased through a TVM, but you'll only be able to manage it through an account on the original retailer's site.

Card numbers are in four parts: 633597 identifies it as being an ITSO card, the next four digits identify the issuer, then there's a seven digit card number and finally a check digit.

In terms of routes, looking at CrossCountry's list of collection locations, the one thing the Chiltern stations on there (Banbury, High Wycombe, Leamington Spa and Oxford Parkway) have in common is that they've got ticket barriers, so I'd hazard a guess that the initial rollout for Chiltern is Seasons (including Travelcard Seasons) for gated stations only (though it isn't explicitly stated on their Smartcard page), with expansion to other stations to come in a later phase.
Sadly the system is a bit annoying. A Northern TVM will accept the following; TPE Smart, South West Trains Smart, South Eastern Railway the key and London Midland the key.

They will not accept getmethere, Walrus, Thamesdown, Brighton & Hove the key, Cheshire Travelcard, York by bus, Stagecoach Smart, M Card PAYG, Thameslink the key, First Touch, One Card, Rosso, Travelwest, iff Card.

I see no reason why the following OIDs are not on the whitelist.
 

Wallsendmag

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Sadly the system is a bit annoying. A Northern TVM will accept the following; TPE Smart, South West Trains Smart, South Eastern Railway the key and London Midland the key.

They will not accept getmethere, Walrus, Thamesdown, Brighton & Hove the key, Cheshire Travelcard, York by bus, Stagecoach Smart, M Card PAYG, Thameslink the key, First Touch, One Card, Rosso, Travelwest, iff Card.

I see no reason why the following OIDs are not on the whitelist.
Apart from meryseyrail, GTR and ScotRail all the rail companies should be inter-available. The reason why non rail cards aren't being accepted is due to the question about how a ticket gets replaced if you lose your non rail card.
 

Denco3

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Apart from meryseyrail, GTR and ScotRail all the rail companies should be inter-available. The reason why non rail cards aren't being accepted is due to the question about how a ticket gets replaced if you lose your non rail card.
Are the HOPS linked for all other TOCs then? Eg if I used a Northern TVM to load a season ticket onto a South West Trains smartcard, would South West Trains be able to issue a replacement smartcard with the season ticket preloaded?
 

Denco3

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As far as I know all TOCs are using the RDG HOPS
I know both TPE and South Eastern cards have a SEFT ID, but both South West Trains and London Midland have their own IDs. Although that doesn't rule out them using the same RDG HOPS, just makes it less likely. Perhaps they have migrated HOPS, since their schemes first started.
 

Wallsendmag

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I know both TPE and South Eastern cards have a SEFT ID, but both South West Trains and London Midland have their own IDs. Although that doesn't rule out them using the same RDG HOPS, just makes it less likely. Perhaps they have migrated HOPS, since their schemes first started.
Each TOC has its own instance, even ourselves who aren’t issuing cards or selling ITSO products.
 

Fiyero

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I've had a Smart Card with South Western Railway with my Annual Gold Card ticket for a while now and want to add other tickets for return journeys but the ticket machine doesn't allow Gold Card Discount (gives the not available at this time message) though does give other railcard discounts. Is that by design or am I doing something wrong? I can't see a way to do it online either.
 

talldave

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I've had a Smart Card with South Western Railway with my Annual Gold Card ticket for a while now and want to add other tickets for return journeys but the ticket machine doesn't allow Gold Card Discount (gives the not available at this time message) though does give other railcard discounts. Is that by design or am I doing something wrong? I can't see a way to do it online either.
Were you trying before 09.30? TVMs tend to behave like a ticket barrier and enforce time restrictions rather than just selling you the ticket you want.
 

Fiyero

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No, definitely later in the day - though the machine behaved just like when you try too early, though would have let me buy other discounted tickets included Network Railcard (which would have given the same discount by technically not been valid)
 

Deerfold

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