SN Class 158

[TBDDesiro]

Hi All,

apologies for starting a new thread and if in the wrong section!

being at Three Bridges around midnight I heard a roar of a diesel engine which wasn’t the normal freight trains in the area, looking on OTT/RTT it was most likely 5F97 pathed as a Class 158 under SN

I know SN’s 171’s are moving to East Mids, Only guessing this could be the start of the introduction of 158’s to SN? If anybody has any Intel would be interesting!

 

[Class455]

Hi All,

apologies for starting a new thread and if in the wrong section!

being at Three Bridges around midnight I heard a roar of a diesel engine which wasn’t the normal freight trains in the area, looking on OTT/RTT it was most likely 5F97 pathed as a Class 158 under SN

I know SN’s 171’s are moving to East Mids, Only guessing this could be the start of the introduction of 158’s to SN? If anybody has any Intel would be interesting!

All Class 170/171 paths show up as a Class 158 on Realtime Trains. What you actually heard was a 2 car Class 171 returning to Selhurst Depot. There are no Class 158's due for southern

 

[physics34]

No confirmation anywhere concerning 171s leaving Southern, just rumour

 

[TBDDesiro]

Thank you both

 

[43096]

No confirmation anywhere concerning 171s leaving Southern, just rumour

It is more than rumour. The EMR fleet plan has Class 171s in it for transfer. That has been confirmed by a reliable source.

 

[TBDDesiro]

When is the proposed transfer to EMR? Or is that still up in the air?

 

[swt_passenger]

When is the proposed transfer to EMR? Or is that still up in the air?

It’s covered in the EMR rolling stock thread here:
https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...idlands-franchise.180920/page-68#post-4223954
The quote there from Modern Railways gave dates of transfer from SN to EMR. It’s far more than a rumour. I suggest that’s a better place for further discussion to avoid duplication.

 

[Murray J]

Hi All,

apologies for starting a new thread and if in the wrong section!

being at Three Bridges around midnight I heard a roar of a diesel engine which wasn’t the normal freight trains in the area, looking on OTT/RTT it was most likely 5F97 pathed as a Class 158 under SN

I know SN’s 171’s are moving to East Mids, Only guessing this could be the start of the introduction of 158’s to SN? If anybody has any Intel would be interesting!

Yeah 171s and 170s show up as 158s on RTT. I have however heard a rumour from a moderator in a discord server that the 171s heading up to EMR are being swapped for EMR 158s. Personally I think it's possible, not necessarily likely or confirmed, but that's just what I've heard.

 

[Doomotron]

Yeah 171s and 170s show up as 158s on RTT. I have however heard a rumour from a moderator in a discord server that the 171s heading up to EMR are being swapped for EMR 158s. Personally I think it's possible, not necessarily likely or confirmed, but that's just what I've heard.

Do 158s fit in the tunnels on the Uckfield line, and can they run as 10-coach sets as needed on the Uckfield line. I know Electrostars have a fit if they go over 12 coaches, so what would 158s do, considering the most amount of units in a service 158s operate is 3?

 

[Murray J]

No idea if they fit through the tunnels, I'm just going off what I've been told, but in theory they can run as 10 car sets but would probably run as less. All the EMR sets are 2 cars but could be converted to run as 3 cars I think.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It is more than rumour. The EMR fleet plan has Class 171s in it for transfer. That has been confirmed by a reliable source.

But was it not confirmed that these “171s” mean the mothballed ScotRail Turbostars destined for Southern that didn’t actually get there?

 

[Doomotron]

No idea if they fit through the tunnels, I'm just going off what I've been told, but in theory they can run as 10 car sets but would probably run as less. All the EMR sets are 2 cars but could be converted to run as 3 cars I think.

But that leaves the question of where the centre cars would come from?

 

[NoMorePacers]

But that leaves the question of where the centre cars would come from?

Like the GWR sets did, where they stuck a driving car onto another driving car perhaps?

 

[swt_passenger]

But was it not confirmed that these “171s” mean the mothballed ScotRail Turbostars destined for Southern that didn’t actually get there?

No it was those as well as the 171s. Please see the EMR thread I linked to earlier.

 

[Doomotron]

Like the GWR sets did, where they stuck a driving car onto another driving car perhaps?

This would halve the fleet size to just 13.

A normal Uckfield set is formed of 10 coaches, 2+4+4. With 3-coach units, it would operate as 3+3+3, which is a reduction in capacity and frequency. With 2 coaches, it would run as 2+2+2+2+2, which not only might not even be allowed to run, but also would mean that there would only be 4 or 5 sets, leaving hardly any units for the Marshlink line. Really, if Southern swap the Turbostars for 158s there will be a reduction in capacity or service frequency. Looking at other issues, 158s might not fit in Oxted tunnels, and 379s will need quite a bit of money to be converted to batteries, and there aren't enough 377s to run Ashford services effectively. I wonder what the speed limit on the Ashford to Brighton route are?

The only option that makes sense is spending money on 379s, electrifying both lines, or making EMR keep the 158s and Southern the 171s.

However, if EMR insists on Turbostars, Southern could be needing new trains. The 158s are getting old, after all. D-Trains? HSTs on the Marshlink line? We won't know for the time being.

Spoiler

Okay, maybe not HSTs. But it would be cool.

 

[Murray J]

This would halve the fleet size to just 13.

A normal Uckfield set is formed of 10 coaches, 2+4+4. With 3-coach units, it would operate as 3+3+3, which is a reduction in capacity and frequency. With 2 coaches, it would run as 2+2+2+2+2, which not only might not even be allowed to run, but also would mean that there would only be 4 or 5 sets, leaving hardly any units for the Marshlink line. Really, if Southern swap the Turbostars for 158s there will be a reduction in capacity or service frequency. Looking at other issues, 158s might not fit in Oxted tunnels, and 379s will need quite a bit of money to be converted to batteries, and there aren't enough 377s to run Ashford services effectively. I wonder what the speed limit on the Ashford to Brighton route are?

The only option that makes sense is spending money on 379s, electrifying both lines, or making EMR keep the 158s and Southern the 171s.

However, if EMR insists on Turbostars, Southern could be needing new trains. The 158s are getting old, after all. D-Trains? HSTs on the Marshlink line? We won't know for the time being.

Spoiler

Okay, maybe not HSTs. But it would be cool.

Ok then in that case 158s aren't as likely as I previously thought. I'm intrigued as to what SN are going to do with stock on the marshlink line, I personally think the most likely option is either second hand diesel stock or an EMU with battery's, perhaps 377s with battery's or something on the lines of 2 769 units with deliner couplings and a 2 car 171, just an idea.